Ethanol sucks!

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07-11-2008, 07:51 AM
altiain

Ethanol sucks!

No really, it does. :wink:

So I've got a couple of ethanol questions. First, does anyone know where I can find out whether the EPA mandates a certain ethanol percentage in the fuel used for fuel mileage testing? I'm curious if manufacturers are allowed to use 100% gasoline or if they are required to use a certain ethanol/gasoline blend.

Second, has anyone stumbled across a website that maps gas stations that sell ethanol-free gasoline? My local station sells E10 (10% ethanol blend), and I have found that when I fill up with 100% old-fashioned, dead dinosaur fuel that I consistently get 2-3 mpg more per tank.

I live in Collin County, but I'd be tempted to drive out of county for non-ethanol fuel if that's what I need to do.
07-11-2008, 08:01 AM
TheChadVIII

Dallas and any bordering counties are required to sell a blend. So you definately won't find any here.
But yea a 90/10 blend of Gas/Ethanol has something like 93% of the potential energy of straight gas.

EPA tests are done with the exact recommended octane from the manufacturer straight gas.
07-11-2008, 08:36 AM
Miatamaniac92

I'm pretty sure up to 10% is allowed in all Gas since the early 90's. I would Wiki it, but it's now blocked at work (as p0rn???).

To stay competitive in the gas market it's hard to imagine any gas station selling 87 at a higher premium(than competitors) and marketing it as 100% Gas Gas. Most consumers won't discriminate the extra MPG, just that the price is comparatively higher.

Know any chemical engineers? You can get a couple samples from local stations and test them, but who knows if that would be consistent.

You could call local distributors and maybe they'd give you a heads up.

Or maybe the local airport's AVGAS has 0% Ethanol, I don't know what Octane that is though. Another benefit of buying it would be no Road Taxes ;)

So anybody on the RX8 forums running E85? When I get the MS, I'd like to have an E85 map to run when I want (more power).

Chris
07-11-2008, 08:39 AM
cam76034

DFW gas got me 280 miles highway driving, Louisiana gas, I was able to squeeze out 313 miles.
07-11-2008, 12:28 PM
Darron65

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheChadVIII

Dallas and any bordering counties are required to sell a blend. So you definately won't find any here.
But yea a 90/10 blend of Gas/Ethanol has something like 93% of the potential energy of straight gas.

EPA tests are done with the exact recommended octane from the manufacturer straight gas.

I didn't realize it went by county, thought it was everywhere. Maybe that high dollar gas in Mineral Wells is actually worth it.

You're right about the reduced energy in the ethanol blends. Google "specific heat".
07-11-2008, 12:44 PM
cone-cerned

Are pumps required to be labeled as E10 or pure gasoline? I remember seeing some pumps with a label saying "Contains 10% Ethanol".
07-11-2008, 12:49 PM
altiain

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darron65

I didn't realize it went by county, thought it was everywhere. Maybe that high dollar gas in Mineral Wells is actually worth it.

You're right about the reduced energy in the ethanol blends. Google "specific heat".

I know it's not everywhere. The gas station at the entrance to Motorsport Ranch proudly proclaims "100% gas, no ethanol".
07-11-2008, 02:02 PM
CraiginTX

Quote:

Originally Posted by altiain

I know it's not everywhere. The gas station at the entrance to Motorsport Ranch proudly proclaims "100% gas, no ethanol".

It's in Hood county - not adjacent to Dallas county and so not required...
07-11-2008, 02:03 PM
Rogue

Any station in Dallas, Tarrant, Collin, or Denton County is 10%

I used to drive the 3 miles to Wise County to get real gas but the now get 10% due to deliverys coming from Denton. ::Rant::

Avgas is 100 octane low lead, and you need a N number to buy it legally.

Ask you local lawnmower guy what Ethenol is doing to small engines.

Makes you woner how long before 8's are coughing up apex's. :confused:
07-11-2008, 02:03 PM
modernbeat

I travel Houston to San Marcos and San Antonio fairly often. I stop in Luling and fill up. They are 100% Gas with no Ethanol. I get 11% better milage on straight gas.

If there is ethanol in the fuel they have to mark it with the "up to 10% ethanol" sticker.
07-11-2008, 02:31 PM
Miatamaniac92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue

Avgas is 100 octane low lead, and you need a N number to buy it legally.

Ask you local lawnmower guy what Ethanol is doing to small engines.

Makes you wonder how long before 8's are coughing up apex's. :confused:

I think 8's are coughing apex's for other reasons. Mazda had to design it to be able to handle at least 10%. So the components are fine to run on it, the tuning is the trouble with more than ~10%.

Chris
07-11-2008, 03:27 PM
bnordin

Quote:

Originally Posted by cam76034

DFW gas got me 280 miles highway driving, Louisiana gas, I was able to squeeze out 313 miles.

I also experienced a drop in milage once the greennies got involved.
Let's do the math.
For years I got 31 miles to the gal. or 310 miles on 10 gal/gas.
Once the 90/10 blend hit the stations I got 27.5 miles per gal. or 275 miles on 10 gal/gas
9 gal of the old gas would net me 279 miles so the 1 gal of corn nets me a negative 4 mi/gal.
In addition, the cost of corn has risen to the point it is effecting food supplies.
If you think all this is a good idea, keep voting in the liberals.
07-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Miatamaniac92

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnordin

If you think all this is a good idea, keep voting in the liberals.

Sorry, it's not that simplistic. You can start a topic in Gasbags and we can hash it out a bit though.

Chris
07-11-2008, 07:14 PM
Radio-Active

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92

Know any chemical engineers? You can get a couple samples from local stations and test them, but who knows if that would be consistent.

Any chemist that can analyze plating solution for metals could find out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92

Or maybe the local airport's AVGAS has 0% Ethanol, I don't know what Octane that is though. Another benefit of buying it would be no Road Taxes ;)

As Rogue pointed out, it's 100 octane Low lead. The amount of Tetra-ethyl lead is about 4 times greater than regular leaded gas was for cars. It will plug up a catalytic converter in no time flat and also foul your spark plugs.

100 octane Racing fuel is $6.00 a gallon over in Van Alstyne at the Lone Star Exxon/Mobil.
07-12-2008, 06:00 PM
MadMonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by modernbeat

I travel Houston to San Marcos and San Antonio fairly often. I stop in Luling and fill up. They are 100% Gas with no Ethanol. I get 11% better milage on straight gas.

If there is ethanol in the fuel they have to mark it with the "up to 10% ethanol" sticker.

No wonder I noticed my mileage going to crap!! When I lived in La Grange, I could easily get over 300 miles out of a tank in my Miata, even leadfooting it. My Teg regularly got around 32 mpg, too.

Now that I'm up here, I rarely get over 280 a tank with the Miata and I'm averaging about 26-28 mpg in the Teg. Sucks :(
07-12-2008, 08:13 PM
MX-5EE

Quote:

Originally Posted by altiain

So I've got a couple of ethanol questions. First, does anyone know where I can find out whether the EPA mandates a certain ethanol percentage in the fuel used for fuel mileage testing? I'm curious if manufacturers are allowed to use 100% gasoline or if they are required to use a certain ethanol/gasoline blend.

I am not 100% sure, but I think that part of the new EPA testing procedures for 2008 (that caused all manufacturer's mileage figures to drop significantly) is that they must test with E10.
07-15-2008, 12:32 PM
SirHustlerEsq

I don't see why mpg would get worse. If EGO correction is tuned for 14.7, then regardless of what the fuel is made of, 14.7 is still the magic #.

fyi, I don't know anything really about tuning with ethanol or than 9.76 for a stoich burn.
07-16-2008, 10:59 AM
motorollow

The "Mad Money" guy was on NBC's Today show this morning calling for the end of ethanol in our gasoline because it is driving up food prices. Maybe he should run for president.
07-16-2008, 11:35 AM
Darron65

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr brg

I don't see why mpg would get worse.

Because it takes more ethanol to get the same work done compared to gasoline.
10-01-2011, 09:20 AM
Rogue

A little late to the game but here:

http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX
10-02-2011, 03:31 PM
ray_sir_6

Quote:

Originally Posted by altiain

No really, it does. :wink:

So I've got a couple of ethanol questions. First, does anyone know where I can find out whether the EPA mandates a certain ethanol percentage in the fuel used for fuel mileage testing? I'm curious if manufacturers are allowed to use 100% gasoline or if they are required to use a certain ethanol/gasoline blend.

Second, has anyone stumbled across a website that maps gas stations that sell ethanol-free gasoline? My local station sells E10 (10% ethanol blend), and I have found that when I fill up with 100% old-fashioned, dead dinosaur fuel that I consistently get 2-3 mpg more per tank.

I live in Collin County, but I'd be tempted to drive out of county for non-ethanol fuel if that's what I need to do.

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX
10-02-2011, 04:22 PM
Nails

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue

A little late to the game but here:

http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

Not as late as ray_sir_6.

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