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:clap:
HaHaHa
Pretty much sums it up. After they burn through the 15 billion they are getting, they'll be back again asking for more and blaming their troubles on the fact they didn't get the full 35 billion they asked for to begin with.
hahahaha
I am sure the UAW not helping them. Since the first oil embargo in the 70's, they have been promising cars that are fuel efficient and people will buy! It has been 30 some years, and they still singing the same song!
Giving them money is not the way to go. We should arrange some kind od marriage like...Toyota General, Nissan Ford or Red Flag Chrysler!
If they each built only 4 SUV's instead of 7, they would be fine.
and HUMMER, the new EDSEL!
:)
Yeah, all of those foreign makers are just selling cars like hot cakes. I hear that they can't keep supply in the showrooms. Too bad GM/Ford/Chrylser can't sell cars like they are right now.
Yea for crying out loud just one manufacture in particular has the following SUV line-up!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue
FYI - Toyota's U.S. sales tumbled 34 percent in November, including a 35 percent slump in its Lexus luxury line.
- RAV4
- FJ Cruiser
- 4Runner
- Highlander
- Sequoia
- Land Cruiser
- RX
- GX
- LX
Yet another example of a Stupid American car company! ::Rant::
Detroit should burn =(
Yeah, they should all be more like Honda!Quote:
Originally Posted by jrj512
Quote:
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Honda Motor Co. (HMC : Honda Motor Co., Ltd. 11:07am 12/10/2008 ) said Tuesday November U.S. sales fell 31.6% to 76,233 vehicles from 111,431 a year ago. Honda brand sales slid 30.6% to 68,345 units while Acura division sales tumbled 38.9% to 7,888. Only the Pilot model showed an increase in sales, rising 4.5% to 5,601
How about instead of giving then the $$$$$. Give every household in the US a voucher for a new vehicle! I am sure the $$$ will work out about the same and we will instantly solve the porblem of no one is buying.
That's been done already with the economic stimulus checks. The tobacco and alcohol industries are doing quite well without any more help from the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabkwong
Oh come on, if they gave house holds a vouger then what would the CEO's get out of the deal. Ya sure they are saying they have to sell there private planes, and ok we are getting money now we will just go out and buy a bigger and better plane after we sell the old one. Ya this hole bail out deal isn't going to help the economy, it isn't going to get repaid back to the people because they will come up with some reason why they can't afford to pay it back. All along they will still have there multiple houses, there planes and there big pay checks while people all around the U.S. are still hurting on money.
Nope I say we do just like gabkwong said. Give a vouger to every house hold let them choose which company they would buy a car from. Or even better yet, since they seem to be able to through all this money at the banks, and the car manufacters why not just triple the amount of what the last stim checks were to the people and give them another stim check in that amount. Let the people choose where they think there tax dollars should be going not a few people sitting at some table in Washington.
Ok well I got that out of my system.
$15 billion bailout loan divided by about 300 million folks in the US equals about $50 per person. My household share of that would be $150, which isn't enough to stimulate me into buying a new car from one of the Big Three.
Exactly my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by POS Racing
This has nothing to do with sh1tty cars. All of the car companies are on the same boat. It's just that the US companies are sinking faster because of their heavy labor costs.
that and the fact that they refused to change their ways after 20 straight years of market share loss, too many brands, too many dealers, etc, etc, etc... :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by jrj512
A Japanese car company and an American company decided to have a canoe race on the Missouri River. Both teams practiced long and hard to reach their peak performance before the race. On the big day, the Japanese won by a mile.
The Americans, very discouraged and depressed, decided to investigate the reason for the crushing defeat. A management team made up of senior management was formed to investigate and recommend appropriate action. Their conclusion was the Japanese had 8 people rowing and 1 person steering, while the American team had 7 people steering and 2 people rowing.
Feeling a deeper study was in order, American management hired a consulting company and paid them a large amount of money for a second opinion. They advised, of course, that too many people were steering the boat, while not enough people were rowing. Not sure of how to utilize that information, but wanting to prevent another loss to the Japanese, the rowing team's management structure was totally reorganized to 4 steering supervisors, 2 area steering superintendents and 1 assistant superintendent steering manager. They also implemented a new performance system that would give the 2 people rowing the boat greater incentive to work harder. It was called the 'Rowing Team Quality First Program,' with meetings, dinners and free pens for the rowers. There was discussion of getting new paddles, canoes and other equipment, extra vacation days for practices and bonuses. The pension program was trimmed to 'equal the competition' and some of the resultant savings were channeled into morale boosting programs and teamwork posters.
The next year the Japanese won by two miles.
Humiliated, the American management laid-off one rower, halted development of a new canoe, sold all the paddles, and canceled all capital investments for new equipment. The money saved was distributed to the Senior Executives as bonuses.
The next year, try as he might, the lone designated rower was unable to even finish the race, so he was laid off for unacceptable performance, all canoe equipment was sold and the next year's racing team was out-sourced.
Don't worry, there will be an official CAR CZAR to make sure Detroit starts making the kind of cars the government thinks they should make. Reminds me of when Homer Simpson designed the "Homer".
Anybody care to wonder what features the BarneyFrankMobile might have?
You can't kill a brand if you can't shut down the factory or lay off workers. The bloodsucking UAW strangles the American car companies. I blame that on both the UAW and to a lesser extent, the management.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammm
I agree...no, really...Quote:
Originally Posted by jrj512
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammm
Nope, I don't beleive you. ::Rasp::Quote:
Originally Posted by sammm
That was kinda my point. They aren't going to help a company by putting a bandaid on the issue. I don't see how this money is going to help them out, and worse yet how they can even think that this money will be paid back to the tax payers. Shoot they couldn't even make sure that the money that was being given to the banks was spent right, right after they got that money they went to high cost restraunts and were found using the money there and other places that had nothing to do with fixing the debt issues as it was ment to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Walsted
Yea you can, just don't give them the money. The car companies go bankrupt, the workers get laid off and leave the unions, the UAW goes away.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrj512
Then if the govt so chooses, it can give the big 3 start up capital loans to restart the companies and rehire the workers that want to work (sans union). Done, period, over.
I don't think the law allows companies to keep unions out, so if the Big three restarted with the same employees, my guess is that they would vote in the same unions. There is also at least one case where the government ruled that if you keep most of the same employees, the previous union contract is still valid. (That case involved a change in weather contractors at Wink airport, so it may not be applicable). So, it would be very important to make sure the previous contract was invalidated in the bankruptcy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus Flux
The UAW guys may be partly responsible for the low quality of cars, but keep in mind that they do not create bad or inferior designs, or stupid management structure and even more stupid product plans. Yes the UAW sucks a lot of blood off the the big 3. However, the bad managements are still responsible for the ships going down! They are paid to keep the ships off the rocks!
Another solution may be to fire all the managers in Detroit and hire a bunch guys from Japan to run the Big 3. Please keep Uncle Sam off unless you want the factories run like the Driver License Office! May be, just may, we can turn the table on the Japanese and we all waiting in line with cash in hands to get our next track cars from Detroit!!!
lmao, nice Titus!
Interesting comments hear...
Yeah POS we get it that the Big 3 are not the only ones with sales drops; only one thing they are still making profit! Toyota makes more profit than the Big 3 combined! At least a couple yrs ago I read...
Yep, the UAW is evil and so is CAFE is another great idea that is horrible in execution. Combine that with resourses spread way too thin across to many models and variants of each model and the result is the sub-par overall quality products from the Big 3. Yeah, someone listed 7 or 8 suv's by Toyota/Lexus but they don't all have 4 to 8 different variations on engine options! There is no freaking logical reasoning for GM to offer 3 v6 engines, 3 4.6l v8's and a couple 5.7l v8's on their full size truck!?!!! That is a gross mis-use of resources. They only need one v6, one mid range engine and one big badass engine and save the money wasted on engineering and development for these varients that have only minor and stupid differences, like one having a canister oil filter and one having a cartridge filter!
Personally from driving customer's cars everyday and writing up repair estimates and work orders, the majority of major repairs are on domestic cars. And I get to see first hand the difference in quality over the brands and different years. My 90 Miata with 268k miles that's been beaten by Texas sun and many track days, has a nicer interior and has held up better than the top of the line GM cars that are half my car's age and mileage! Prime example would be a 02 Vette and a fully loaded DeVille (00 I think) both with around 100k miles. Neither car was aggressively abused or neglected but I was shocked at the poor condition of the interiors. While I'm very impressed with the better quality interiors from domestic car, especially GM, IMO our little NA Miatas still have a leg up on most of the new cars from the Big 3.
Yes, they do, actually. By sapping so much money out GM, there is not enough profit from each car to invest as much into engineering. I doubt Honda would be turning the Accord and Civic every four years if they had to pay out as much to labor as the US companies do.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabkwong
I don't know if you guys know about the Chrysler fiasco but this paints a pretty good picture
::StirTheP
And here is the latest on the Big 3 Bailout
Also for your reading pleasure is the House version of the proposed bill
I heard some dude on the radio claim that manufacturing wages only make up 8% of the price of a car. lol I don't know that I believe that, but its not the typical statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabkwong
ok, so it looks like I' using some frequent flier miles to get to the pentagon and burn a flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus Flux
Interesting article...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12/ame...rss_topstories