Calling gun owners

I know there are several of you on here. I'm soliciting opinions. The time has come to consider purchasing a gun for personal protection in the home. I anticipate that I/we will take the appropriate courses on gun handling, and then tuck it away, hoping never to have to use it. I don't see myself going to the driving range on a regular basis. At least I think so.

I've heard and read that in such a situation, a shotgun might be preferable to a handgun. More cumbersome, but less need for accuracy. What's the prevailing thought?

Regarding handguns, any brands/models to consider or avoid? Don't need a high-dollar gun, just something simple and effective. Also, best places to purchase? Gun shows, or local guns shops? Any recommendations? Are there places to "try before you buy"?

Thoughts or suggestions? Fire away...;)

I have a Ruger P-90. .45 calibre

:Actual Size!: ;)
http://www.mdgardner.com/guns/RugerP90.jpg
I decided on a .45 for the stopping power and its subsonic.
I am not worried about over 50ft, more like close in defense.

If some SOB enters the house, the better hope I get the .45.
If Barbara gets it, the don't have a chance in hell.
She is a great shot, even with my gun. :clap:
(she also has a .38 special)

I have the Taurus 24/7 OSS in .40S&W and LOVE IT.

It's easy to shoot, easy to takedown and clean, and you can decock it to carry a round in the chamber but without having the hammer spring loaded to fire. In other words, it decocks it to run in double action instead of single action.

I like that a lot better than carrying a ready to fire single action with safety on when I'm hunting and crawling through the underbrush trying to find where the pig crawled off to.

12 gauge shotgun. You can load it with something that will not (likely) leave the exterior walls of your house in an urban area, but will neutralize a human with far greater reliability than anything coming out of a hangun. Function is extremely reliable. You will hit what you're aiming at - but get a "defensive" length 18.5 inch barrel and PRACTICE maneuvering through your house with it.

Dallas Pistol Club offers a Defensive Shotgun course of fire the second Sunday of most warm months and is a great opportunity to got informal, low stress help in operating your shotgun in defensive mode.

Also produces sound #2 on the list of top 10 things baddies don't want to hear. Number 1, too, but statistically, most don't stick around for that unless they're really hopped up...

I've got a Mossberg ATP 500 12 ga. 6 shot pump w/pistol grip and 18 1/4" barrel. Its low cost, not too large, fairly easy to handle and shoot from just about any shooting position, easy to hit your target, and has lots of stopping power. Its strictly for home defense as its not pleasant shooting more than a few dozen shots or so with the pistol grip. I did make a custom foam grip around the stock pistol grip and it made it much more comfortable to shoot. But, with 6 shots of 00 buck loaded and 1 1/8 oz. slugs for the 2nd and 3rd groups, I don't figure on having to shoot many shots to take care of business.

Make sure to get a trigger lock if you have little ones (or stupid adults) in the vicinity of where you store the gun.

Now my alternate personality that enjoys firing handguns responds...

Bullet Trap in Plano has an extensive try before you buy fleet. I hate shooting indoors, though. I always wind up in the lane next to the ass clown with the .44 magnum. Sucks indoors. Makes your head implode.

Give me a ring some Saturday and you're welcome to unload some brass through one or more of my Glocks at Dallas Pistol Club. Perhaps we can round up some of the other nutjobs gun owners and let you try out a bigger variety.

You ask a bunch of questions, so I'll try and help.

Re: where to try out some guns
- The Bullet Trap in Plano has a lot of rentals
- Go to/plan a shootin' get together at a range. You can try a variety of your buddies' guns that way.

Re: where to buy a gun
- The Bullet Trap is pricey, but they can get you setup
- txguntrader.com
- gunbroker.com
- budsgunshop.com
- summitgunbroker.com

Note that if you buy off the internet, you'll need to have the weapon shipped to an FFL in the area. Most charge $20 or less for their services.

Shotgun vs. Pistol vs. Rifle:
- read http://www.theboxotruth.com/ and refer people there when they say to just use birdshot for protection and that buckshot won't go through sheetrock and that the pellet spread to be many feet when going down a hallway.

That said, I like shotguns too and they are fun on the range blowing (or at least trying to ) away clays. Even a simple one like a Mossberg Maverick from Academy for < $200 is a good shotgun. And it's made in Texas to boot.

What to buy:
- Buy what you're comfortable carrying, holding, shooting, and cleaning. If a gun is too heavy or intimidating, then you'll never carry, practice or feel comfortable with it. A .22 (or 2 or 3) to the chest is better than a .45 to the arm as the saying goes.

My favorites:
- 1911 (a design, the classic .45auto that you see in the military from, oh 1911 til the late 80's/90's). Classic, feels great, millions of parts out there now. A Taurus 1911 from Academy will set you back $5-600 though.
- P22. yes, it's a .22, but it looks like a real gun, feels like a real gun and is fun as heck to shoot.
- XD40/XD9. They just shoot really well and have more safety features than the Glocks that they kind of mimic.

A lot of people swear by a revolver (just pull the trigger, it doesn't fire, pull it again) vs. a semi-auto. Personally I am not a fan of revolvers (I just don't like the way they feel when shooting them and am simply more accurate with a semi-auto).

If you want a good, cheap weapon, this one is a great deal: http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411537009


Another thing to consider is that ammo is pretty tough to come by these days.
If you can find it Walmart is your source for cheap practice ammo.
Prices:
9mm: $9/50
40 S&W: $12/50
45auto: $15/50
.22lr: $14/550

If you can't find it at Walmart, the next stop is Academy. Then you get to go to Bass Pro or Cabelas.

When you get to self protection ammo, the prices get really steep. $1/round isn't uncommon. And you need to shoot the ammo to make sure your gun likes it. Nothing worse than *needing* the weapon to fire and hearing "click" because of a failure to feed.


Where to shoot:
I personally like the Garland Public Range. $10 for a lifetime membership, then $10 a day for whatever you want to do (pistol, rifle, shotgun ranges). Open every day of the year, but it's outdoor, so when it's cold and rainy it can be miserable.

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

it's outdoor, so when it's cold and rainy it can be miserable.

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Why would I go shooting on a cold and rainy day when I can go autocross and have much more fun? :rolleyes:

shotguns for self defense are great my suggestion would be a decent .357 revolver leaving rounds in a magazine for long periods of time can weaken the spring and may cause a missfire when you do REALLY need to shot someone and also simplicity to use if your wife or other needs to use it .

Spring don't wear from sitting static unless they are binding or something similar. What causes SOME magazines to wear out is feed lips spreading or bodies bulging. The only thing that will wear a spring is "working" it.

If you do go the route of buying a gun for home protection please do me and everyone else a favor. Try to get out at a minimum every two months or more for some kind of target practice. Marksmanship a perishable skill and it will dimenish the more it's not used.

And believe it or not shotguns still have to be aimed and birdshot is for birds not people. The bare minimum most experts agree on coming from a shotgun is #4 buckshot in a self defense situation.

I'm not going to try to sway you too much on handgun selection. But if you are going to be doing a minimum of practice I would suggest Glock or XD. Less to worry about when you pull it out of your hideyhole in the middle of the night.

When the adreniline starts flowing you are going to revert to the you fight as you train mindset. No way around it, it's just how were wired as human beings. If all you do is put few rounds down range a few times a year you may never get the proper muscle memory to disengage the safety or rack a round into the chamber in a life or death split second emergency.

Revolver, 38, so you don't shoot holes in your neighbor's house or kill your kids. Also, you don't have to worry about clip springs and can click right past a bad round. Shotgun's great choice too and can load rock salt in #1 and something more persuasive if not permanent in #2.

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Originally Posted by miataspeedracer

I don't see myself going to the driving range on a regular basis. At least I think so.

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Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider

If you do go the route of buying a gun for home protection please do me and everyone else a favor. Try to get out at a minimum every two months or more for some kind of target practice. Marksmanship a perishable skill and it will dimenish the more it's not used.

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I'm surprised this didn't come up before the ninth reply. The hardware is powerful, and responsible ownership involves diligence.

You should probably hit golf balls at the driving range and shoot at a gun range.

What if you shot golf balls at the driving range for target practice? ::Banana::

You can't go wrong with a Mossberg 88 with an 18.5 in barrel. $170 at Academy, cheap, short and very lightweight. I keep it loaded with #4 heavy dove loads (I think it's dove loads). They're a good balance between minimal wall penetration and man stopping power.

I keep a .380 in the drawer for when I need to check out a noise in my backyard and don't necessarily want to freak out my neighbors.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...i/P1030917.jpg

Two cons to this gun:

1. Make sure you try it out first, pay attention to the length of pull. Some of my shorter friends have trouble reaching the fore end when holding the shotgun to their shoulder, apparenely it has a pretty long length of pull. My wife and I are tall so we have no trouble with this.

2. Due to the shorter barrel it's been tough to find a good range to shoot at. The skeet / trap range I frequent flagged me for shooting a 'riot gun' at their range, and made me put it in the car. Any barrels less than 20" are against their policy. They also ban any "home defence loads" bigger than #7. I hear most skeet / trap ranges are like this, and the pistol ranges are pistol/rifle only. I need to find a range that will let me shoot a 'riot gun' that does not have DFW in the name.
This is my biggest offense, I have plenty of shotgun experience, and have another 12ga that I shoot trap with, but the one I keep for protection I can't shoot very often. I am still pretty good with it when I do shoot it, but that does bother me.

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Originally Posted by Jiggerachi

I need to find a range that will let me shoot a 'riot gun' that does not have DFW in the name.

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Dallas Pistol Club offers the opportunity to shoot your "riot gun" the second Sunday of most months... It's ~$15 for non-members and a lot of fun.

Info here: http://dallaspistolclub.com/tacticalshotgun.php

I agree with everyone who says practice with handling and firing your weapon is something you will need to commit to if you plan on becoming a gun owner. It is my opinion that having a gun and not training yourself to use it properly is more dangerous than not having a gun.

As for what to get, much like cars, it's best to try before you buy. The best gun for you is the one you are best able to handle and most comfortable with.

My own preference is for 1911-style pistols chambered in .45 ACP. The .45 ACP is a very powerful round, but is not as prone to overpenetration (with the right ammo) as many other rounds considered to have similar stopping power, such as the .357 Magnum. I like the 1911 design specifically for a number of reasons. First off, I am more comfortable and accurate shooting them than anything else I've ever tried. Second, it has multiple safeties, including a manual safety that prevents the trigger from being pulled. I am not comfortable with the DA-only pistols that don't have this kind of safety, and feel much more secure with a 1911 cocked and locked, myself. And third, it fires the .45 ACP. It might not be the best choice for you, but I suggest you try one.

As for pistols vs. shotguns for home defense, I'm going to go against the grain and state my preference for pistols. Why? First and foremost, their compact dimensions mean you have more options for where you keep them, which can make them easier to get to quickly in an emergency situation. Also, there are more ranges where you can shoot them, which opens up more opportunities to go shooting for people like me who have to go to a range to do so. The more you shoot, the more effective you will be.

I also understand that an effective shotgun round is going to have similar problems with overpenetration a pistol will have. A single 00 buckshot round at close range is essentially similar to shooting several 9mm rounds at once. Anything that is going to be effective enough to cause lethal damage to a person is likely to go through a wall. Personally, I'd rather fire one projectile at a time.

Both pistols and shotguns have their advantages. For me, the advantages of the pistol make it more attractive.

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Originally Posted by Dudley Dawson

Both pistols and shotguns have their advantages. For me, the advantages of the pistol make it more attractive.

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That's why you need both! Be prepared for any situation.

Hey it worked on my wife...:D

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Originally Posted by Jiggerachi

Hey it worked on my wife...:D

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I'm sure it did... but what did you do with the body?

The Mossberg 12ga is excellent choice. Would prefer a pistol grip put on to make it easier to manuever inside the house and point. Take a broom and walk around the house and try and point and you will get a good idea what a full stock shotgun would be like going around corners, entering hallways, staying low and peaking around corners etc. you don't have to actually shoot an intruder to be effective. Just to look down a 12ga barrel will make most intruders run away. If you should have a jam or misfire you have a good club.
Auto loading pistols require much practice to handle and can be complicated to use especially when it is dark, you are scared, adrenalin and hart are racing and your family is panicking. As most will tell you not to keep a loaded firearm accessable you will have to load the magazine, put the magazine in the pistol,rack the slide, remove the safety, in a tense situation you can fumble easily. Also most auto pistols for home protection will need softer ammo to not over penetrate and hurt the neighbors or the child still asleeb in their crib at chest height to rooms over. The softer loads can cause the pistol to not function properly and jam and you then have a small club that requires a closer confrontation.
Revolvers are much simpler to operate and have no safety, are easier to load but require the same attention to ammo selection.
Hope this helps lookslike most has all ready been said.

I hate to dissent on the "ease of operation" part... but I think the semi-auto Glocks are just as intuitive to operate - if not more so - than any revolver.

Point. Squeeze. Bang. Repeat.

They tolerate abuse. They tolerate being ignored. They tolerate being dirty. They feed most ammo. If you've got small hands, there may be issues, and then a revolver may well be a better choice.

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Originally Posted by CarCar

As most will tell you not to keep a loaded firearm accessable you will have to load the magazine, put the magazine in the pistol,rack the slide, remove the safety, in a tense situation you can fumble easily. Also most auto pistols for home protection will need softer ammo to not over penetrate and hurt the neighbors or the child still asleeb in their crib at chest height to rooms over. The softer loads can cause the pistol to not function properly and jam and you then have a small club that requires a closer confrontation.

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A couple of points I'd like to make:

If you do indeed keep your weapon unloaded, I think an automatic pistol would be one of the easiest options to load quickly. It's certainly going to be faster than feeding shells into a shotgun, and probably faster than loading a revolver too, unless you're really experienced with speedloaders. Also, if you're keeping it unloaded, there's no need to leave the safety engaged. Just slap in a mag and rack the slide. And realize that an unloaded gun kept in a safe or the top shelf of your closet is not an effective defensive weapon. If your living situation dictates that you store your weapon in such a manner, you might actually be better off spending your money on hand-to-hand self-defense courses.

Regarding ammunition selection's effect on an autoloader's operation, that's going to be mainly dependent on the gun itself. Some are more tolerant of variation than others. My own preference is for plain old 230 gr. hardball. Admittedly, it does have greater penetration than some other choices, but no worse than 00 buckshot.

1. Buy a Glock
2. Take lessons from a qualified instructor.
3. Fire at least 500 rounds through the pistol at an informal point and shoot type event. (The steel matches at Dallas Pistol Club are a good example and non members are welcome)
4. Shoot at least 1 match per year after that to keep in practice.

Firearm ownership is more than just a financial investment. "The drivers skills are more important than the car"

My two cents.
NRA firearm safety instructor
NRA personal protection instructor
NRA action pistol expert since 1989.

Thanks, all, for the great advice. Lots to think about. (Especially this: don't Fu%# with Miata owners!!)

A couple of things. No kids in the house, so no issue with needing a gun safe. And if someone DOES get in the house without an invitation, I'm not too concerned with putting a hole or holes in the wall.

Once I've made a decision (and it sounds like I need to go try a variety of items), both the g/f and me will take appropriate classes to ensure we understand what's involved. Still leaning towards an easy-to-use and uncomplicated handgun. Either way, it will better than the 2-iron under my bed.

And yes, the shooting range it is, NOT the driving range! LOL

Is Plano getting bad or something? Why do you feel the need for a gun now? Just curious. I'll shut up now.

I bought a taurus judge 4.10 handgun that shoots shotgun shells

I have a 357,44, x3 38 specials

most my collection will kill anything that moves

I've held off long enough now. #4 shot is not buck shot (#0 or #00) nor is it dove shot (#7 or #8). It is for hunting Turkey, Ducks, and Geese (Large Fowls).

Anyway, Also if your concerned about putting holes in walls or through your walls into other people’s houses there are "Freedom Rounds" such as those used on airplanes by the air marshals. These rounds will wreck your life, but not your walls. Supossedly you can stand on the other side of a single sheet of dry wall and the round won't go through it; but if it hits organic material it jacks it up.

http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgist...48&idp=0&his=0

This remarkable round is the terrorists worst nightmare. Under most circumstances, the AFR (Air Freedom Round) will not penetrate the skin of conventional aircraft, causing a decompression. It is also designed to not penetrate the aluminum backs of most airline seats, reducing potential collateral damage in the event of a shootout at 30,000 feet. Unlike rounds made of polymers that can generate lethal ricochet, the Extreme Shock AFR round will turn to harmless powder if it misses its intended target and hits a hard surface. It is the only round in the world with this level of performance and safety. This is also possibly the world's safest home defense round, as in most circumstances, it will fragment in standard 1 half-inch sheet rock wallboard. This bullet runs at plus-P type pressures, and should be used only in firearms of good construction and good working order.

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Originally Posted by Sharpie

Is Plano getting bad or something? Why do you feel the need for a gun now? Just curious. I'll shut up now.

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Gophers...

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Originally Posted by miataspeedracer

Gophers...

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Try this::D

I would look into a 9mm for using cheap ammo. I would also look at the Kel-tec for an inexpensive consealable gun. They are very light weight and thin.

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Originally Posted by MiataMike

I've held off long enough now. #4 shot is not buck shot (#0 or #00) nor is it dove shot (#7 or #8). It is for hunting Turkey, Ducks, and Geese (Large Fowls).

Anyway, Also if your concerned about putting holes in walls or through your walls into other people’s houses there are "Freedom Rounds" such as those used on airplanes by the air marshals. These rounds will wreck your life, but not your walls. Supossedly you can stand on the other side of a single sheet of dry wall and the round won't go through it; but if it hits organic material it jacks it up.

http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgist...48&idp=0&his=0

This remarkable round is the terrorists worst nightmare. Under most circumstances, the AFR (Air Freedom Round) will not penetrate the skin of conventional aircraft, causing a decompression. It is also designed to not penetrate the aluminum backs of most airline seats, reducing potential collateral damage in the event of a shootout at 30,000 feet. Unlike rounds made of polymers that can generate lethal ricochet, the Extreme Shock AFR round will turn to harmless powder if it misses its intended target and hits a hard surface. It is the only round in the world with this level of performance and safety. This is also possibly the world's safest home defense round, as in most circumstances, it will fragment in standard 1 half-inch sheet rock wallboard. This bullet runs at plus-P type pressures, and should be used only in firearms of good construction and good working order.

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Avoid this gimmick ammo at all costs. It's simple physics anything that will incapacitate a person will penetrate a wall or walls. Simple. Just read their website and they way they put it together and speak is simply astounding. The fact that people even consider this ammo is pretty impressive proof that their marketing department is great at using fancy words that impress people.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

In theory these rounds sound awesome but in practice they are far from a miracle round. In fact if you look at the "Air Freedom" round it looks almost just like the Glaser safety slug.

And as for the Air Marshall thing they no long use any frangible ammo (They used to use Glaser safety slugs) as the threat of an "explosive decompression" is pretty low even if you poke multiple small caliber holes into an aircraft fuselage. It's been overhyped by the movies and people think it will happen. IIRC they now use Speer Gold Dot ammo.

There's a lot more I could go into on this thread but my fingers aren't up to it lol.


Oh if you want to be amazed by more marketing hype take a look at "DRT" ammo. That stuffs about a joke too.


Oh
http://www.google.com/products?q=%23...N&hl=en&tab=wf

#4 buckshot

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Originally Posted by tailchaser

Give me a ring some Saturday and you're welcome to unload some brass through one or more of my Glocks at Dallas Pistol Club. Perhaps we can round up some of the other nutjobs gun owners and let you try out a bigger variety.

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I'll bring my Beretta 96D, let's do it on a Saturday or Sunday! ::Banana::

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Originally Posted by jeepinbanditrider

IIRC they now use Speer Gold Dot ammo.

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That's what I've been loaded with lately :D

I like Speer Gold Dot. My load of choice is a 124grn +p.

Now assuming I HAD to be in a firefight and was able to pick something......I'd grab my AR or MAK-90 anyday of the week. Even in the house.

hmmm.... I *also* load 124 gr +P gold dot for social work. Must be a Miata thing. :-)

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Originally Posted by Nails

Revolver, 38, so you don't shoot holes in your neighbor's house or kill your kids. Also, you don't have to worry about clip springs and can click right past a bad round. Shotgun's great choice too and can load rock salt in #1 and something more persuasive if not permanent in #2.

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I'll second the 38. I don't personally own one, but revolver action is more reliable than semi-auto and the 38 has been around for a long time.

That said, should you choose to go for a CHL in the future, qualify with a semi-auto so you can carry either. If you qualify with a revolver, you can only carry a revolver.