Where can you buy race gas in DFW?
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Where can you buy race gas in DFW?
taco bell?
There's a couple places. ECR sells it, but it's not cheap.
Motorsport Sales near 635/75 has a good rep and it's on your way home.
There's a bike shop north of 635 on the west side of 35 that sells VP fuels, but it's really pricey.
Kroger sells E85, which is 105 octane ;) I'll be running that in a couple weeks. It's 30 cents cheaper/gallon then 87!
Our local airport sell avgas 100LL for $3.55/gal. I don't know if you could use it in a race car.::Shrug::
So what do EVO drivers do when they switch to e85?Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
I've run a gallon of Toulene during hot track days but haven't messed with the e85.
I'd like to run a Megasquirt II or III and hook up a flex fuel sensor.
Chris
E85 is 105oct 30cents cheaper than 87oct but you do burn %20 more fuel i think.... It requires a complete upgraded fuel system but that also depends on how much boost yada yada yada. Its just a better alt. less worry about detenation and you can run more boost and such.
It better not have a catalytic converter in it. Also, 100 low lead avgas contains 4 times more lead than did regular leaded gas for cars. Even in aircraft you can have issues with fouling the spark plugs after a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by cone-cerned
In Van Alstyne, the Exxon station on the north-east corner of the highway has racing fuel, propane and K1 kerosene
I'm spending about $1000 between parts and labor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92
I'm having to upgrade injectors (1000cc), fuel pump, fuel pump housing, a fuel line in the tank and fuel filter (since the OEM one is inside the tank [BAH!]). Then I pay for install of these parts, plus a retune.
I likely won't run much more boost (maybe one PSI more, I'm running 26psi now), but I'll be able to run quite a bit more timing, which will be nice since it will be power across the board.
Here's Chris from Cobb's dyno plot on his X MR converted to E85:
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/u...0/5a213473.jpg
As you can see, 1psi of boost, but 71 ftlb tq and 52hp.
And Cobb's dyno reads lower than most (Mustang AWD, that's not calibrated correctly IMO).
20-30% more fuel is common. At WOT, because you're typically increasing the fuel delivery system it potentially is even more.Quote:
Originally Posted by moosemonkey
Which will be interesting to see since I already only get 6-7mpg on the track
northstar drag way in denton has 104 octane no lead it was 8 bucks a gallon but the ms3 ran great on it.
Which brings up a good point - What are you going to do at the track when you burn through your tank of corn gas in a session and a half? Will you have an alternate map for normal gas?Quote:
Originally Posted by goofygrin
I'll do what I've started doing now, bring fuel with me (and remember to take it out of the back seat :lol:).Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
And ya, I'll have an alt-map and can switch it with the laptop in my glove box.
Don't they have 100 octane gas at the Texaco at the front gate at MSR?
There's E85 within 15 minutes of H2R.
Chris
Yes, among others (well the last time I was there).Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx74
It's about 20 minutes from Hallett too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92
E85 is the devil (at least when it comes to most passenger cars).Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92
The whole Ethanol-as-fuel for street cars thing is a joke. All that ethanol is good for in most passenger cars is destroying the fuel systems. The E10 pump gas we're all forced to buy is really bad for lawn equipment and other non-road-going power toys like jet skis and such. I use 50:Fuel in all my 2-cycle equipment at home (zero ethanol, all synthetic oil, fuel stabilizer included, pre-mixed to 50:1). It's nice having my blower and weedeater start on the first pull after sitting idle for 3 months.
Sorry for the off-topic rant. :D
E85 is the business (cheap and relatively easy HP).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dante
Also, it does not destroy road cars and shouldn't have any effect on the fuel system (disregarding tuning) made after 88 or 89 (when Federal cars had to be able to accept <E10).
Obviously this was not mandated for 2-cycle equipment.
Chris
Can we run 100 octane gas in a "regular" street car without tuning changes?
Actually, that's not true at all. The alcohol in E85 will destroy any seals in the fuel system that are made from natural rubber. Also, ethanol is an electrical conductor (gasoline is not), so it will promote galvanic corrosion between dissimilar metals (like steel and aluminum) in fuel system components.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92
Continued use of E85 in a vehicle that has not been designed to use it will cause problems. Unless a car is touted by its manufacturer as "flexfuel" capable, it is not safe to use anything above E15 in the car without converting the fuel system to be compatible with E85
Information that I was referring to:Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803341
Lots more good reading in that thread, looks like it's on pg. 51 now.Quote:
What about fuel system corrosion?
Corrosion does not appear to be an issue with modern OBDII cars. They are all certified by the manufactures to be safe to use on 10% ethanol fuel blends, and industry insiders say they are safe for much higher percentages. You don't install components that are "sorta safe" with a chemical, you put in a fuel hose etc. that is ethanol safe for concentrations well above what you expect to use. Not to mention that folks have been talking for years about raising the ethanol level to 20% or more.
Occasional use would be no problem at all based on my experience. I have never cut open the fuel filter (still have the OEM filter in place) I'll open it when I replace it. I want to put enough time on it to have conclusive evidence if there are problems.
(edit circa 2007 I cut open a fuel line and it looked like new, not changes or damage on stock rubber fuel lines in 2002 WRX)
The engine is not an issue with either, WI using a water alcohol mix or straight alcohol injection. In those systems alcohol and water are not used in significant quantity or for long duration. The Buick GN folks and lots of folks in the DSM crowd have done it for literally decades with no problems for the engine.
Many years ago there were studies that indicated engines that ran on alcohol ALONE as a fuel, had issues with lubrication and valve seat wear. Keep in mind, those studies were done a long time ago, when engine oils were much less sophisticated than they are now, and some engine manufactures in the 1940's,1950' and 1960's made stupid engineering decisions and did not use hard valve seat inserts like stellite in the cylinder heads. This resulted in valve seat recession problems if you did not have lead additives in the fuel to protect the valve seats.
Chris
IIRC you need a fuel system designed for E85 fuel or you're fuel lines and other rubber parts will degrade.
Chris,
If that were the case, why wouldn't manufacturers tout all of their vehicles as flex fuel friendly? It's a marketing coup - they'd get to advertise that they are more "green" without spending one red cent on engineering.
I'll tell you why - because engine manufacturers have done a lot of testing, and they've found that without making significant changes to their fueling systems, most of their vehicles are not capable of running for extended periods of time on E85 without the potential for damage. Those changes - like replacing rubber seals with Viton ones - cost money. The time is coming when all vehicles will be E85 capable, but now is not that time.
There's a big difference between E20 - which some people are pushing, and which car manufacturers have said for years would void the warranty on non-flexfuel vehicles - and E85.
BTW, that whole comment about designing for higher ethanol concentrations - engine manufacturers don't design for what you may or may not use. They design to the regulations and minimum requirements they have to meet, and not much higher than that (especially if designing higher would cost them more money). True story, different industry - we had several failures on machines with "Brand X" engines in them in Arizona. These were EPA Tier 2 (>750hp) engines, which are required to run on 15ppm sulfur diesel fuel. The fuel onsite was found to be 19ppm on average... and it was causing injector failures. "Brand X" did not warranty the failed engines. Neither did we. 4ppm doesn't seem like much, does it? Certainly not as much as changing a chemical concentration from 10% to 85%...
I don't buy the premise that it's ok to run E85 in road cars not specifically labeled as flex-fuel capable. It won't necessarily bomb you on the first tank, but long-term it's not going to do you any favors (especially for normal street use, but if it's all you can get to make it out of the desert, I guess it'd do in a pinch, but so would Everclear)...Quote:
Originally Posted by Miatamaniac92
Anecdotal story - while fetching lunch during one of the autocross events at TMS this summer, I was listening to "Wheels", hosted by the guy that writes the Sunday "Drive" section in the Startle-Gram every week (Dave something?). He was talking about how he has been tracking over the last year or so reports of drivers having a lot of issues with their fuel systems in NEW cars (i.e. <3 years old) that when the dealership tested the fuel in the tank, it showed up as way more than the 10% supposedly in the gas you get at the pump. In these cases, dealers would find 20% to 30% ethanol in the tank. In one extreme case, a dealership OWNER filled up his own E85 flex-fuel capable Chevy Suburban with what he THOUGHT was REGULAR 87 octane (E10). When he tried to leave the gas station, it immediately stalled and would not start. He had it towed back to his dealership, and they found that there was 100% Ethanol in the gas he'd just filled up his nearly-empty tank with. 100%!!!! And it completely stalled out an E85-capable Suburban! After draining a quarter of the tank and refilling with REAL gasoline, it would run again.
So, not to beat a dead horse, but if there was no real preparation required to run E85, why in the world would manufacturers go through all the extra work and COST to make flex-fuel vehicles if they could just say "nah, anything can run E85, go for it." They skimp every nickel and dime, they're not gonna drop hundreds or thousands of dollars into their cost to make a car unless they have to, and don't say it's just for the CAFE loophole. If the SAE thought you could run E85 in any normal car, they wouldn't have setup the requirements they do to make a "flex-fuel capable" car.
Point is, E85 will destroy natural rubber and cause dissimiliar metals to corrode at junctions. I guess if you're just going to overboost the snot out of your Impreza and ditch it at 40k (after putting it all "back to stock" for the next sucker to deal with), then yeah, go for it, run 60 pounds of boost with E85 and have fun with it. But it's still not healthy for your non-flex-fuel car. </rant>
The main costs associated with the flex fuel vehicles, during manufacture is actually the flex fuel sensors and the programming required to make the car work on anything from E85 to E0. When building a car, it is pennies to actually get the right seals, etc.
I will say that BMW recommends 0 ethanol as much as possible.
Anyway, this thread is way off topic.
so... can "regular" cars run 100 octane gas?
I don't know why you would want to unless you have a rally high compression ratio or you are running a lot of boost, something that would cause the engine to pre-detonate.
If you want 104 octane, all you have to do is go get a propane conversion kit and run propane in your car.
Thx.