Changing the AX Course at Lunch?

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11-28-2009, 07:46 AM
jrj512

Changing the AX Course at Lunch?

I am still kicking around the idea of a Winter Series AX in Jan and Feb, but I am also considering any unique features that I could try at these events since they are off-season. One of them is changing the course for the second half of the day, so you would make your first four runs, work (or vice versa), go to lunch, and make your second four runs on a modified course. The flow of the course would be the same, but there would be changes, such as entrance to slaloms and corner entries/exits. This way, no one would be lost on the course, but they might not be so smooth.

We would plan the changes beforehand and make them during the first 30 minutes of an hour lunch break. The drivers can elect to take a short lunch in order to walk the course for the second half of the lunch break. We will have a specific time at which the course will be closed for walking.

We will probably have course maps for both AM and PM courses, but I am not 100% on this.

If is possible that the PM course workers will have more cones to shag since some people might elect to not properly walk the course. However, since the course's general flow has not changed, then safety should not be an issue.

Amy I missing anything?

What do you think of the idea?
11-28-2009, 07:50 AM
sammm

I don't like it. If you start out running 1st heat, you'll work the next 2 sessions and then get your last runs in the last part of the day.

Conversely, those who work first will get all their runs back-to-back.

Don't change things because of 1 whiner. :cat:
11-28-2009, 08:24 AM
jrj512

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammm

I don't like it. If you start out running 1st heat, you'll work the next 2 sessions and then get your last runs in the last part of the day.

Conversely, those who work first will get all their runs back-to-back.

Don't change things because of 1 whiner. :cat:

This has nothing to do with swapping work/run orders. It regards changing the course itself at lunch.

However, your comments about swapping work/run order is noted.
11-28-2009, 08:57 AM
sammm

I don't like that idea either. ;)
11-28-2009, 09:09 AM
general default

Since it was one of my suggestions... I like the idea. :clap:
11-28-2009, 09:41 AM
POS Racing

I don't like the idea.

At the last NTAXS event a bunch of folks couldn't figure out your eclectic course in 8 runs and now you want to change it up a noon?
11-28-2009, 09:55 AM
Majik

I say strap a cheese wheel onto the cars instead of tires for the afternoon.
11-28-2009, 10:16 AM
wrx74

I did an event in Amarillo a couple of years ago. They regularly deign courses that they run on direction in the morning and the opposite in the afternoon. They switched the start and finish and a few pointer cones.
I mentioned the idea to the Porsche Club and they have discussed but never done it.
It is more challenging and better suits those interested in National competition.
I might be a challenge for our talented course designers, too.
11-28-2009, 11:03 AM
goofygrin

I like wrx74's idea :)
11-28-2009, 11:59 AM
SixAce

I kind of like the idea of reversing/changing the second set. I'm assuming the scoring would be the best run from each course combined into a total, like div and nat events? Try it and if it sux, it's easy to go back to the old way next time no? If indeed we are lucky enough to play in the winter, turnouts would be lower to to the :cat: factor, which makes the attempt easier. ::2Cents::
11-28-2009, 11:59 AM
jrj512

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrx74

I did an event in Amarillo a couple of years ago. They regularly deign courses that they run on direction in the morning and the opposite in the afternoon. They switched the start and finish and a few pointer cones.
I mentioned the idea to the Porsche Club and they have discussed but never done it.
It is more challenging and better suits those interested in National competition.
I might be a challenge for our talented course designers, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofygrin

I like wrx74's idea :)

Because of the placement of parking stops and handicap signs, PMS only lends itself to a single direction.
11-28-2009, 12:01 PM
jrj512

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixAce

I'm assuming the scoring would be the best run from each course combined into a total, like div and nat events?

I am not sure if we would do the best time for the event in whole, break it into two events (still single pay), or sum the times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SixAce

Try it and if it sux, it's easy to go back to the old way next time no? If indeed we are lucky enough to play in the winter, turnouts would be lower to to the :cat: factor, which makes the attempt easier. ::2Cents::

I agree.
11-28-2009, 12:48 PM
hud636

Vote: for course change at lunch, if the venue, weather and stars are right.

The only two day SCCA Divisional event(at TMS) I have participated in ran one way
on Sat and the reverse(with minor changes) on Sunday. Only 3 laps/day to work your
magic. S2K/NTAx format has 4 laps AM & 4 laps PM. Usually the last three laps are ~
the same times or way bad when you take oops's through a plethera of cones or go
roundy-roundy. I think 4 laps on two different(more or less) courses would give us
twice as much practice at planning lines and getting our eyes, hands,feet and cars to
follow those lines. Twice the racing in a single day of Ax.
Really enjoyed this Ax madness. Looking forward to 2010.
11-28-2009, 05:33 PM
cone-cerned

I think it would be good to try it during the winter series. If it works well, then you could give it serious consideration for next year's full series. If it doesn't work well, we will have time to find someone to blame.::Rant::
11-28-2009, 06:13 PM
goofygrin

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrj512

Because of the placement of parking stops and handicap signs, PMS only lends itself to a single direction.

Why? If you were to enter on the north instead of the south side of the lot, where some people exit, then I can't see why you couldn't do it that way...
11-28-2009, 10:04 PM
jrj512

Quote:

Originally Posted by goofygrin

Why? If you were to enter on the north instead of the south side of the lot, where some people exit, then I can't see why you couldn't do it that way...

The handicap signs and parking stops in the northwest corner would intrude on the braking zone, which would require me to move the finish lights back even further.
11-28-2009, 11:08 PM
wrx74

1 Attachment(s)

Possibility?

Could you work with this layout? Might have to move the lights at lunch, too and might need longer cables.
11-29-2009, 07:37 AM
altiain

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammm

I don't like it. If you start out running 1st heat, you'll work the next 2 sessions and then get your last runs in the last part of the day.

Conversely, those who work first will get all their runs back-to-back.

Don't change things because of 1 whiner. :cat:

I strongly agree with Sam's comment. Greg was a whiner five years ago when he owned his first S2k. If you change this he'll find something else to whine about, and he'll expect you to accommodate that as well. Nip it in the bud now.

Besides, it's a stupid idea. Either keep flipping a coin or alternate which group goes first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrx74

I did an event in Amarillo a couple of years ago. They regularly deign courses that they run on direction in the morning and the opposite in the afternoon. They switched the start and finish and a few pointer cones.

I prefer this idea. If designed right, it can also mean a lot fewer course changes (I assume that the start/stop beacons can just be reversed?).

I also kind of like the idea of the sum of your best morning run and your best afternoon run. It's like a Tour or Divisional in a day. That's something no other club offers, and it will appeal to both the SCCA types (practice for bigger events, two courses in one day), and the non-SCCA types (still get lots of seat time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrj512

The handicap signs and parking stops in the northwest corner would intrude on the braking zone, which would require me to move the finish lights back even further.

Aren't the handicap signs and parking stops in the southwest corner? :scratch:
11-29-2009, 07:39 AM
jrj512

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrx74

Could you work with this layout? Might have to move the lights at lunch, too and might need longer cables.

It gets too close to the curb next to HEB Dr.
11-29-2009, 07:42 AM
jrj512

Quote:

Originally Posted by altiain

I strongly agree with Sam's comment. Greg was a whiner five years ago when he owned his first S2k. If you change this he'll find something else to whine about, and he'll expect you to accommodate that as well. Nip it in the bud now.

Besides, it's a stupid idea. Either keep flipping a coin or alternate which group goes first.

Sammm's comments regarded another subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by altiain

Aren't the handicap signs and parking stops in the southwest corner? :scratch:

Yes.
11-29-2009, 09:42 AM
wrx74

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrj512

It gets too close to the curb next to HEB Dr.

That's just the traffic flow - the actual lights at the finish would be where we always put them.