Confidence Inspiring Brake Pads?

At Eagle Canyon Raceway last weekend my '94 did not fill me with confidence as I hit the brakes. Mind you they work, but they just don't give you any initial feedback when you hit the pedal. I was having similar issues at a couple of the autocrosses where I ran this car no initial bite. At first I figured it was just and ABS thing, but the Track Day made me reconsider.

I'm running OEM value pads with less than 5,000 miles on them. Front rotor were replaced at the same time as the pads.

So what are you cool kids running for brake pads?

Hawk Pluses

There are pads with more bite but are dedicated track pads.

BR has a new Hawk 6****? pad that had as much bite as the Plus on an NC.

He can fill in the number.

Didn't you buy the 'Value' pads, not regular OEM's? With the ABS, I think OEM's would be fine.

If you're the next TrackJunkie, check out Hawk HP+.

For a heavier car, the HP/HP+ are garbage. I run Hawk DTC-30's on the street/autox (and their initial bite is like a fat chick on a chicken leg). For the track, I run the HT-10's... more progressive feel than the monster initial bite.

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Originally Posted by sammm

Didn't you buy the 'Value' pads, not regular OEM's? With the ABS, I think OEM's would be fine.

If you're the next TrackJunkie, check out Hawk HP+.

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Yep running the value pads on the '94. There just isn't any initial bite it is weird feeling.

The '99 had a lot better brakes and the '02's brakes are awesome. Heck the 'lac has better initial bite and it has drum brakes all around. ;)

Oh and I do plan to be the next track junkie! You just keep watching the L.D. Bell High school paper someday they will be writing about me and my $300.00 a month tire budget! ;)

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

For a heavier car,::Blah::::Blah::::Blah::::Blah::.

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Really looking for Miata specific information....

But thanks for playing. ;)

I'm running HAWK HPS pads now and really like them. In fact I just ordered a set for my Saturn also because at the last Texas Time Trial they started to go out the door in quick order.

On the Miata, I am running axxis ultimates front and back with an ABS proportional valve (which is just a U joint). The ultimates doesn't have great initial bites but they worked fine at ECR. But I am not as hard on brakes like Iain, Ken O or Thomas.

I really like the Carbotechs on my RX-8. I am going to order some Xp8s for the miata once I burn through the ultimates.

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

I run Hawk DTC-30's on the street/autox (and their initial bite is like a fat chick on a chicken leg). For the track, I run the HT-10's...

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What year Miata is this on?


I also an thinking about new pads.
I have OEM (Non-Value) pads and the worked great at Hallett with the ABS.
The do seem to glaze a bit around town, though.
after a good hard stop, they bite good again.

I don't want dust, or that annoying squeal.

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

For a heavier car, the HP/HP+ are garbage.

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+eleventybillion.

Hawk HP/HP+/Blues were great pads when they came out. Brake technology has moved on since then.

I run OEM Mazda pads on the street, and Carbotech XP10/XP8s on the track. My datalogs show sustained 1.1-1.2Gs of braking with the Carbotechs, over and over and over again, and they’re pretty easy to modulate right up to ABS engagement. They also work surprisingly well at street temperatures, with far more initial bite when cold than the OEM pads. That said, the XP Series are too aggressive to be full time street pads.

My only complaint with them is that they leave a transfer layer that doesn’t play so well with the OEM pads

If I wanted a double duty pad for a lighter car on street tires, I’d try the Carbotech AX6 pads. I’ll be replacing my Mazda OEM street pads with AX6s next season, to avoid any issues with transfer layer.

I have always run axxis ultimates on the csp car. I don't do track events, so I wouldn't be able to comment about that. For AX and street driving, they are fine, IMO.

Are you looking for pads that will work on the track, AX, street?
Do you want to change pads for each event?

Personally I don't think that pad brand choice is what you should be worried about. Brakes don't stop the car, the tires do! So you need to make sure the brake bias is dialed in so that you are using all of the tires available grip:

- Pull the ABS fuse and go out for a drive with a buddy.
- Have them watch from outside the car as you hit the brakes hard enough to lock up the tires for a second.
- Repeat the test a few times and see which end locks up first.

If the front tires lock up first - put a more aggressive pad on the rear or a weaker pad on the front
If the rear tires lock up first - put a more aggressive pad on the front or a weaker pad on the rear

Wow, opinions are all over the place here.

First off, I had a set of "value pads" on my old '94 for about 2 days. They are awful and have horrible initial bite. The regular OEM pads would be a great step up from there, but they will not hold up well to braking at ECR.

The Hawk HPS is just a step behind the value pads in initial bite. Don't even consider them.

I ran Hawk HP+s on my NA and now on my NC. They are a good street and mild track pad for lightweight cars. They have even held up well on my heavier NC. I'm pretty sure Nails, EunosNC and I were all running them at ECR.

You have ABS, embrace technology. Don't bother mixing pad compounds on your car. It freaked out the ABS a bit on my NC when I tried that. It brakes much better and get's into ABS later with the same pads front and rear.

I ran AXXIS Ulitmates on my M3 and found them to be a pretty good pad. I was planning on trying a set on my NC but they don't make them (they do make them for the RX8). They are a very good pad for the price with a higher temp rating than stock and good initial bite.

Gabkwong was telling me about the Axxis Ultimates earlier this week. He found an import website that sells them for $38 per axle. PM Gabkwong for the link.

EDIT: Found it: importrp.com click on "Brakes" top left.

I've run two sets of Axxis Ultimates on the RX-8. They worked fine for the street and for autocross use, but I destroyed a set at Texas World Speedway last year in two sessions.

They might work for the track for a lighter car on street tires, but they won't work for me.

This works for me (and I had ZERO issues at ECR last weekend):

Hawk Blues up front, with brake cooling ducts
Hawk HP + rears

It works as a street set-up in a pinch, but I don't recommend running Blues as a street pad.

I do not have OE ABS. So, I have "ABS for Stupid Feet", Hawk Ceramic on the front and Hawk HP+ on the rear. This is my autocross setup. I just go ahead and run it at my two track days a year. This setup works well enough that I didn't rearend any Corvettes, Mustangs or Volvos at ECR. And, no matter how little I used them, I could not keep up with mr brg, jeff_man, Gary, apex2apex, POS Racing, ken o, altiain, motorollow, miataspeedracer.......you get the idea.

You could keep up with that red supercharged Mustang no problem though!:D

I have Hawk HPS and really like them. I am actually on my second set on the front. They have plenty of bite to me.

I like my HPS in front and HP+ in the rear, at least for AX.

I'm on Hawk HP+ front and rear on my NC, but for next summer I'll try the DTC-60 on all four.

Well just to throw something new into the mix,
I have a slightly heavier car, the RSX, at about 2860 lbs stock, a little lighter than a RX8

I run Fedoro DS-2500's front and rear, good inital bite, plenty of modulation up top and down low, they are pretty easy on the rotors, a little squeak here and there (reversing and creapping up slowly), and noticable dusting. For my car they were about the same price as HP+, with none of the fade that Adam was experiencing at the track day (Adam Payrot also had an RSX with similar setup with HP+'s with fade after 2 laps or so, meanwhile I started to get some brake smell and fade after 6 laps or so of riding the brakes).

Did you mean 2680? 'Cause at 2860 your car is about 40 pounds heavier than mine. :wink:

Get nothing higher than pluses or change them out for track days. And pluses do squeak and dust alot. Hawk Streets have better durabilty than stock with light dusting but not the initial bite.

Forget the HPS for anything but street driving.

HP+ are great but do squeal and dust. (Still worth it over the HPS)

I use DTC-30 pads on the front for the track and they are phenomenal pads.

Tremendous bite over the HP+ but a bit more expensive so I keep them for track use only.

Gary stocks Hawk pads and can hook you up.

Yep, another reason to run Hawks is that Gary can get you a new set in a pinch and HP+s are cheap.

I have run lots of different brands on the Corvette at the track and Miatas both for AX and track.

The Ferodo 2500s are THE ONLY pad I found that would be both streetable and trackable on my Z06. Bought them because of Sam Strano recommendation, and as normal, Sam was right.

Carbotech XP8 and XP10 kill rotors on both Z06 and Miata. About 500 track miles at MSR. And it is easy to overbrake because of very aggressive and increasing bite. And as was mentioned, they leave a film that is not compatible with OEM pads, so I would swap both rotors and pads for track. A lot of work.

Hawk HP+ and HPS are not agressive enough for track. Only ran Blues on an earlier vette, and they were very agrressive and not streetable.

I'm now using Performance Friction 97 compound for track and like them very much. Already bought another replacement set. Don't know about dual purpose or compatibility with OEM pads.

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Originally Posted by altiain

Did you mean 2680? 'Cause at 2860 your car is about 40 pounds heavier than mine. :wink:

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I was going off the MotorTrend numbers
2006 Acura RSX Type-S is listed as 2840 lbs
2004 Mazda RX-8 is listed as 3029 lbs

I use Axxis Ultimate for several years on all 4 corners. For the performance/$ this is the champ! It is even cheaper than running the OEM if you get them from importrp.com! Guys and gails, this is the TCB pad! Yes, for more $$$, you can buy more and better pads, but, for initial bite, dusting, rotor wear, performance/$, Axxis Ultimate has my vote. The only complain is that at the end of the 2-days of fun at Hallett, the dust actually caked on the pad surface and gave me a little problem until I washed them off.

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Originally Posted by sammm

If you're the next TrackJunkie, check out Hawk HP+.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Oh and I do plan to be the next track junkie! You just keep watching the L.D. Bell High school paper someday they will be writing about me and my $300.00 a month tire budget! ;)

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You know for people I hard if never see at the track, yall sure do run your mouths alot. Oh and try the HP +'s then maybe next time you'll be able to keep up ::BaHump::

BTW, I think that HP+s work fine on Miatas on street tires for the track. When you get into R-comps performance levels, you need something more aggressive.

Good info Here

Carbotech xp12 felt awesome, but only last about 2 sessions before they start tapering. Hawk Blue last forever but you don't get much feel. I'm switching to DTC-30 next with blacks in the rear and an "open" bias valve. I'd rather have too much than too little pad on the track. I have a set of Wilwood/PF Polymatrix B to try out, but I don't think that is enough pad.

BTW, Blues and HP+ will eat your wheel paint so either spray the wheels with Pam or wash them frequently.