Daily driver tire dilemma

So it’s time again for another set of street tires on the RX-8. I’ve had Sumitomo HTR Z IIIs on the car this last go around. They’re not bad – they’re round, they’re black, they’re reasonably sporty, and they weren’t horribly loud as they wore down. I’d buy another set, except for one problem…

I spent a week daily driving the car on my new set autocross tires (Dunlop Star Specs). When I put the Sumitomos back on this weekend I was really sad. Now I want stupid sticky street tires all the time.

So, looking on Tire Rack, Star Specs for my street wheels will run me $744/set (245/40-18s). The Kumho XS – which I liked on ken o’s BMW - are only $656 a set.

These will be dedicated daily driver tires. So things like longevity, ride comfort and resistance to hydroplaning are a little more important to me. I know the Star Specs are supposed to be better in the rain, but the Kumhos are ~$90 cheaper. What do you think – buy the Star Specs, or save a few bucks and buy the Kumhos?

Check out the Nitto NT-05.

Flip a coin - heads it's Dunlop and tails it's Kumho

If you say sh*t, i wished it would have been the other, you know what your gut wants to do. Go with your gut. :)

Not sure how the Star Specs do in the cold, but I ran my Miata on XS's when it was 35 degrees and they clunked along for awhile until the tires got some heat in them and the flat spots went round again.

Chris

The XS are the worst in the rain, like crap your pants you're going to die bad.

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Originally Posted by ken o

The XS are the worst in the rain, like crap your pants you're going to die bad.

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Hmm... that's not exactly a vote of confidence...

Could you just drive on the Dunlops you have?

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Originally Posted by Robert

Could you just drive on the Dunlops you have?

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That's what I said or get a true DD tire. Honestly, since you have multiple sets of wheels and these will 100% strictly be fore daily driving I would stick with something that will last longer. I had the same mindset and was hell bent on daily driving on RE-01R or equiv tires but in the end it was just a waste.

I hesitatingly put a set of Falken Ziex 912's on the S2000 after doing lots of research and have been extremely happy so far (1,300 miles). They still have a fairly stiff sidewall so they don't feel like your average mushy passenger tire, they are quiet, they are incredible in the rain and have 8/10 dry traction. I experimented in an empty parking lot and it would take some major shenanigans on the street to run out of traction and the breakaway is actually very progressive. They will last 25K in the rears instead of 6K and they cost about 40% less than some Star Specs which I was considering. They are only $104 bucks in 245/40/18, I highly reccomend them even though I didn't think I would like them before I tried em.

I am running the Star Specs as a daily and so far no complaints. I know tire life won't be what the old BFG's were, but they are quiet and stick. So far they have worked well in the rain, but I havent' tested them in a down pour yet.

I have also been happy using my Star Specs as daily drivers, but I have not driven them in standing water. They are very good on wet pavement.

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Originally Posted by altiain

Hmm... that's not exactly a vote of confidence...

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Well, keep in mind that he enjoys crapping in his pants, so...

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I hesitatingly put a set of Falken Ziex 912's on the S2000 after doing lots of research and have been extremely happy so far (1,300 miles). They still have a fairly stiff sidewall so they don't feel like your average mushy passenger tire, they are quiet, they are incredible in the rain and have 8/10 dry traction. I experimented in an empty parking lot and it would take some major shenanigans on the street to run out of traction and the breakaway is actually very progressive. They will last 25K in the rears instead of 6K and they cost about 40% less than some Star Specs which I was considering. They are only $104 bucks in 245/40/18, I highly reccomend them even though I didn't think I would like them before I tried em.

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( on dear Lord in heaven, I'm going to actually agree with Cosmos....)

Me too... not as sticky as the Goodyear Eagle F1 DS-G3's I had on the car last go around... but much, MUCH cheaper and probably 80-90% of the performance and they've lasted a good 20Kmiles and still have some life left in them.

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Originally Posted by Miatamoto

Check out the Nitto NT-05.

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Hmm… DT has them for $32/set less than the Kumhos. Anyone have any personal experience with them?

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Originally Posted by Robert

Could you just drive on the Dunlops you have?

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No, because I don’t want to heat cycle my competition tires out on the street. Also, my 17” RPF1s only have about 3mm clearance between the barrel of the wheel and the outside of the front brake caliper. One small rock in there will destroy a wheel. I daily drove them for a week, but don’t plan to do it every day.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

That's what I said or get a true DD tire. Honestly, since you have multiple sets of wheels and these will 100% strictly be fore daily driving I would stick with something that will last longer. I had the same mindset and was hell bent on daily driving on RE-01R or equiv tires but in the end it was just a waste.

I hesitatingly put a set of Falken Ziex 912's on the S2000 after doing lots of research and have been extremely happy so far (1,300 miles). They still have a fairly stiff sidewall so they don't feel like your average mushy passenger tire, they are quiet, they are incredible in the rain and have 8/10 dry traction. I experimented in an empty parking lot and it would take some major shenanigans on the street to run out of traction and the breakaway is actually very progressive. They will last 25K in the rears instead of 6K and they cost about 40% less than some Star Specs which I was considering. They are only $104 bucks in 245/40/18, I highly reccomend them even though I didn't think I would like them before I tried em.

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Joe, I know that would be the smart thing to do. I just really enjoyed driving around on the Star Specs last week. I also kind of want to buy some “extreme” street tires for the OEM wheels in case I decide to hit a Chrono-X event (Showroom Stock requires 140+ treadwear tires on OEM-sized wheels). But yeah, I’m sure cost/mile will be double or more for the Star Specs compared to Falkens or another set of Sumitomos.

Sigh... I hate being practical.

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Originally Posted by altiain

Hmm… DT has them for $32/set less than the Kumhos. Anyone have any personal experience with them?

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I've heard good things about them. Emilio from 949 Racing did a back to back test of them on the S2000 a little while back. The write up is on the pointy board.

Goofy Grin has run at least one set of them.

Do you think heat cycles will have that much of an effect on them?

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Originally Posted by altiain

Hmm… DT has them for $32/set less than the Kumhos. Anyone have any personal experience with them?



No, because I don’t want to heat cycle my competition tires out on the street. Also, my 17” RPF1s only have about 3mm clearance between the barrel of the wheel and the outside of the front brake caliper. One small rock in there will destroy a wheel. I daily drove them for a week, but don’t plan to do it every day.



Joe, I know that would be the smart thing to do. I just really enjoyed driving around on the Star Specs last week. I also kind of want to buy some “extreme” street tires for the OEM wheels in case I decide to hit a Chrono-X event (Showroom Stock requires 140+ treadwear tires on OEM-sized wheels). But yeah, I’m sure cost/mile will be double or more for the Star Specs compared to Falkens or another set of Sumitomos.

Sigh... I hate being practical.

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I guess I don't understand what you like about street driving the Star Specs more than a less aggressive tire. The only way I could tell a difference in performance between the RE-01R's and the Falkens was when I simulated some "autocross" driving situations in an empty lot. In other words, I would never drive anywhere near that hard on the street or purposefully slide the car and even if I did the Falkens wouldn't make me lose control or crash. The limits were just a little bit lower than a top tier street tire but it's not easy to reach the limits. In fact I had a few emergency braking situations since I put them on (people running red lights) and they were great!

If I did the math correctly the total cost to use a stickier more expensive tire on the street is approaching 5X more expensive based on 8K a set for Star Spec equiv and 25K a set for DD tires. I can understand doing the Chrono X events (looks like fun) so that would be a good excuse.

245/40/18 nt05s are $127/tire + tax here locally if you decide to go that way. They are fine in water until they are bald. Then, like most tires, they suck.

I like the star specs better for autocross, but at that price, I can't help but keep buying the nt05's. I like the nt05's better for the track though (stiffer sidewall and more predictable release).

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

245/40/18 nt05s are $127/tire + tax here locally if you decide to go that way. They are fine in water until they are bald. Then, like most tires, they suck.

I like the star specs better for autocross, but at that price, I can't help but keep buying the nt05's. I like the nt05's better for the track though (stiffer sidewall and more predictable release).

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You were breathing down my neck at ECR on the NT-05s.

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Originally Posted by Robert

Do you think heat cycles will have that much of an effect on them?

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Absolutely.

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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower

I guess I don't understand what you like about street driving the Star Specs more than a less aggressive tire. The only way I could tell a difference in performance between the RE-01R's and the Falkens was when I simulated some "autocross" driving situations in an empty lot. In other words, I would never drive anywhere near that hard on the street or purposefully slide the car and even if I did the Falkens wouldn't make me lose control or crash the limits were just a little bit lower than a top tier street tire.

If I did the total cost to use a stickier more expensive tire on the street is approaching 5X more expensive!

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Honestly, it’s mostly just one multi-radius cloverleaf on my daily commute (although most of the rest of my daily commute is single lane back roads). The difference through there was night and day between the Star Specs and the Sumitomos. That, and the ability to compete in a Chrono-X event, like I mentioned above. Probably not enough to justify buying “extreme” DD tires.

Hmm… a quick tire cost spreadsheet shows that even the Nittos would be $428 more per year, based on a couple of WAGs on mileage (8k out of the "extreme" tires, 12k out of the current Sumitomos).

FWIW, in mixed (IE, track, autocross, daily driving) use I get about 10-11k miles on my NT-05's. I go about 18-20k miles a year.

I got similar life out of the star specs.

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Originally Posted by ken o

You were breathing down my neck at ECR on the NT-05s.

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I <3 BOOST



(and corn)

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

245/40/18 nt05s are $127/tire + tax here locally if you decide to go that way. They are fine in water until they are bald. Then, like most tires, they suck.

I like the star specs better for autocross, but at that price, I can't help but keep buying the nt05's. I like the nt05's better for the track though (stiffer sidewall and more predictable release).

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Originally Posted by goofygrin

FWIW, in mixed (IE, track, autocross, daily driving) use I get about 10-11k miles on my NT-05's. I go about 18-20k miles a year.

I got similar life out of the star specs.

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Yeah, these will just be for daily driving, and maybe a Chrono-X event or two. Hmm… at $127 a tire if I can get 10k miles out of them than it’ll only cost me an extra $150 a year over the Sumitomos. That seems reasonable… well, reasonable by my twisted priorities, anyway.

Where are you getting them for $127 each?

I sent you an email.

OK I wanted to update my earlier post regarding the performance of the Star Specs in the rain. These tires seem to work well in steady rain with little to no standing water on the road such as this morning. However combine a steady rain such as we had last night around 6:30 with a fair amount of water on the road, highway speeds of 60mph and they do hydroplane a bit even at full tread depth. It made me miss my Toyo's, but I feel it is a fair trade off given the amount of rain we normally get and how fun they are in the dry.

I'll do the same follow up for the NT05s.

Light rain, no problem. Standing water, with the width I'm running (275) causes some skittishness at highway speeds when plowing through the deep puddles (little stuff is ok).

Today on the way to work on the DNT no issues. Yesterday coming from Southlake to Frisco at 1:30pm on 121 there were a couple spots that gave me heck, but that was it.

i'm looking at yokohama S tires! anybody got an opinion on those? does that just open it up!

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Originally Posted by larryd

i'm looking at yokohama S tires! anybody got an opinion on those? does that just open it up!

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Yokohama whats? The only thing Yokohama makes that would compare to the Star Specs are the AD08s, and they're way too spendy ($244 each in the size - 245/40-18 - I'm looking for).

he's likely looking at the Yoko S Drive. I've heard mixed reviews of them.

They are NOT a performance tire though (an all season).

yeah, i meant the Yoko S drive, kine of dropped that off the end and i thought we were talking about daily drivers, 205/50r 15's

did you actually read the thread though? Even the first post? Iain wants grippy daily driver tires since he drove his grippy tires around for a while. SDrives don't meet that qualification.

Yeah, I called Sean & Ken's tire guy yesterday and ordered a set of NT05s. They should be in some time next week

As usual, fun won out over practicality. :wink:

yeah GOOF i read the whole post like this too:

"These will be dedicated daily driver tires. So things like longevity, ride comfort and resistance to hydroplaning are a little more important to me..."

just trying to forum mingle and get some info from others with more experience with these things!

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Originally Posted by larryd

yeah GOOF i read the whole post like this too:

"These will be dedicated daily driver tires. So things like longevity, ride comfort and resistance to hydroplaning are a little more important to me..."

just trying to forum mingle and get some info from others with more experience with these things!

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Larry,

The operative phrase there was “a little more important”. :wink:

Long story short, I’ve been running sensible daily driver tires on the RX-8 for the last three years. I decided I wanted to run one of the new batch of “extreme performance” tires instead. So while I am concerned about longevity, ride comfort, and resistance to hydroplaning, I was looking for responses in the context of comparing those extreme performance tires to one another. :mrgreen:

thanks altain, understand. i'm new with my NA and i'm trying to learn a bunch quickly. i usually just read the posts and try to get something from them. i don't think i'll do any auto-xng but i'd like to get a good set of dd tires, that will perform reasonalby well and won't bring down the rath-o-the-wife with the price.

Quick update:

So I ended up buying the NT-05s. At ~$127/tire for 245/40-18s the price was too good to pass up. I’ve put roughly 1000 miles on them so far, including a road trip to Austin and some track time. Here are my thoughts:

Pros:
If you are looking for a track capable street tires, these should be on your short list. These tires were extremely confidence inspiring last weekend at Harris Hill, and exhibited really progressive breakaway. Turn in was sharp (even with 245s mounted on relatively narrow 8” wheels) and feedback was good. The tires seemed to be pretty heat tolerant as well. Ambient temp was in the 60s, but at one point I ran the car for most of a session (15-18 minutes), then Wags took the car out five minutes later and ran it for another 15 minutes without the tires dropping off. Wags best lap was actually about 3/10ths faster than mine (insert frowny face here).

Cons:

• If you’re looking for the most comfortable street tire, these probably aren’t going to be your best bet. Granted, since I mounted them on the car it’s been in the 30s or 40s most of the time, but at those temps they are stiff and somewhat rough riding. They felt a bit better driving back from Austin on Sunday in the 60s, so I’m hoping this won’t be as pronounced as we get into spring and summer, but they aren’t comfy in near freezing temps.
• They can be a little sketchy in the rain, at least in a cold rain. Again, I have no idea how they’ll fare in an 80-degree spring shower, but they were a bit sketchy driving down to Austin in a 40-degree rain, at full tread.
• These tires are only molded at 7/32nds of tread when new, so I don’t expect them to last forever.

Overall I like them, although I’m looking forward to some warmer weather to really get a feel for them as daily driver tires in more typical Texas weather. This winter has been exceptionally cold and wet for Texas, but if I lived somewhere that it did get cold and rain/snow often, I don’t think these tires would be a good choice. That said, I am actively thinking that I may buy another set of these to replace my R888 track tires when they finally give up the ghost.

part of the rough ride (and quick turn in) is because they have a pretty stiff sidewall. I'd be interested to know the mounted width of them vs. the R888's.

Right now it's not a fair comparison, because I have 255/40-17 R888s on 17x9 wheels, and 245/40-18 NT-05s on 18x8 wheels.

ah ya. One of the local Evo guys/instructors is running 255/40/17 NT05s on 17x8 wheels and says they are fine, so they are pretty narrow I'm thinking.