Tried and true suspension options for $1-1.5k?

I've been researching suspension for a while now and I want to make sure I've considered everything in my price range ($1000-1500) before I make up my mind. My car is a '91 that is driven on the street quite a bit and will go to the track a few times a year. My goal is good track performance and decent street ride.

Flyin Miata 2.5 ($1100)
Flyin Miata 2.5 with ground control 425/300 instead of FM springs ($1250)
Koni sports with GC 375/250 ($1000)
FCM revalve with GC rates that Shaikh tells me I should get, probably need mounts too ($1600)
Tein Flex with 7/5 instead of 7/6 ($1550)

The Flex and FCM revalve really push my budget and leaves me still needing sways, but either of these options will probably provide the best performance.

Any other setups in this price range that I should be considering?

I have an old version of the FM 2.0 that I have had for about 7 years. I like it, but regularly consider upgrading to Tein Flex. I will likely breakdown and get the Flex next Spring.

I'm running my Flex with stock sways and it feels fine at the track.

I think the FM 2.5 is all I *need* right now, but the Teins are what I *want*. I should probably just save up the extra $ for them so I don't end up buying them later...

My 99 have the yellow Koni and GC. My son's 99 has the Bilstein PSS9 (CO package). I have to say the PSS9 rides much better. We have yet taken them out to track yet. However, I have no doubt they should do well in the track. The build quality of the Bilstein is several notches above the Koni! Shaikh and many experts all say that Bilstein has the most consistent QC and every set are matched set. Brian Goodwin sells the PSS9 for $1.45K, but you can find it on the web for around $1K. Also, with Bilstein, it comes with bump stops and covers. It is a plug and play thing. Brain has this on his car. If I have the choose again, I will choose the PSS9. Since you are also in the market for sway bar, you can pick up a beefer bar to work with the PSS9 spring rate (front and back are the same).

The PSS9 runs the same spring front and rear? Wouldn't that result in a very tail happy ride?

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Originally Posted by MoonieGT

The PSS9 runs the same spring front and rear? Wouldn't that result in a very tail happy ride?

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That is way you want a bigger bar. My son has the RB hollow and using the inside holes. It is not tail happy at all. Before we bought the PSS(, we had the same question too. Also, you can Google Brian's Goodwin write on this too. He even has ride height recommendations too.

I'll read up on the PSS9, thanks for the recommendation.

I am running:

Bilstein HD shocks, NB top hats front, ISC top hats rear, ebay coilover sleeves with race springs(450/350), NB front bar and 949racing end links. Total around $750.

Will probably up the spring rates to 700/450 and have the bilsteins revalved in the future.

Have you considered the FM V-Maxx Stage 2.5 suspension kit at $989? You get height-adjustable coil-overs, increased travel upper mounts for the rear, and adjustable sways for under $1000. True, the shocks themselves aren't adjustable, but most people that have adjustable shocks fiddle with them to find the "right" setting and then just leave them there anyway.

p.s. V-Maxx coil-overs / shocks plus sway (without the upper mounts) is only $750.

I have considered them and read through the posts on miata.net. My concern with the V-Maxx is that it is too much of an unknown and it's not rebuildable. On paper they sound tempting though...

Don't I want/need the rear mounts though for the additional travel when lowered? I'm not going to slam my car, but I imagine it will come down .5-1"

What about the Spec Miata package from Mazdaspeed? It may be too hard for the street.

I hear that it is too hard for the street and that no spec builder would use it if it wasn't mandated (i.e., it's not a good suspension it's just what you have to use).

Go ride in a couple of cars with Teins. I think you'll be impressed. More expensive up front, but you won't be doing the "I shoulda..." 6 months from now.

This is very true. I waffled for a long time before I finally got a ride in a couple of Tein cars. The Kool-Aid tastes good and goes down easy... ;)

I don't fiddle with my shock settings for the street, but I do play with it at the track.

If you're out at Keller's tonight, come find me and you can take a spin in my car.

I wish I could come by for a ride and to look at your seat mounts but I've got a family dinner to go to and it's my wedding anniversery, so I won't be able to make it out. Maybe next week. I still don't know what to do about mounting my seat. The Speed 2 doesn't have side mounts and it looked like I need them to mount my seat the way you did. I don't think I'll be able to get my seat put in before MSR this weekend...

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Originally Posted by MoonieGT

I hear that it is too hard for the street and that no spec builder would use it if it wasn't mandated (i.e., it's not a good suspension it's just what you have to use).

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The springs aren't matched to the shocks. Some people modify the Bilsteins, but that is cheating. I would say go with a GC and Koni setup. You can match the infinite adjustment of the Koni's to the spring rate you choose. I am running 700FR / 400RR and everyone is amazed how well it rides on the street. Remember, the conversion rate is .7:1 for converting the springs rate to better compare how they will feel vs a MacPherson strut car. That means that the spring will only compress .7" to every 1" of actual wheel travel. I'm also running 245/35/17 tires, so there is no sidewall to smooth out the ride, so I would considered it more than streetable for someone running 15s.

I'm running Bilstein HD, GC 375/250 springs and FCM spec miata NB mounts with NB sport front sway bar. About $1100 total and I like it very much. I get a low stance and retain a lot of suspension travel with a good ride.

You can always keep an eye out on the boards and pick up a full coilover setup for a nice price that has low mileage on them. That is what I did and ended up getting a set of JIC FLT-A2s used for $700.

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Originally Posted by creek

I'm running Bilstein HD, GC 375/250 springs and FCM spec miata NB mounts with NB sport front sway bar. About $1100 total and I like it very much. I get a low stance and retain a lot of suspension travel with a good ride.

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I'm currious about this setup. I looked into running GC's with the illuminas and I was cautioned that droop could cause the springs to become loose. Is that true of any GC setup, or is that unique to the illumina/GC combination? I know the illumina GC's have shorter bodies than the billstein GC's, but I'm not sure if their spring length is the same as other miata GC kits.

MoonieGT said: "Don't I want/need the rear mounts though for the additional travel when lowered? I'm not going to slam my car, but I imagine it will come down .5-1"

That's true, I was just pointing out a cheaper option for people that don't want that add'l travel (NB owners, for instance).

One thing to keep in mind: new shocks feel great, period. I once put on some new springs and Tokico HPs. They felt awesome. For about 6 months. Then the shocks were shot and the ride was too. I haven't experienced Teins, Illuminas, or V-Maxx's but I'm sure they are all a vast improvement over worn stockers so one ride won't tell you a difference between the good options available. A person that has lived with a "great" option for a couple of years can provide a valid endorsement of that "great" option, but if they haven't lived the same amount of time with another "great" option, they can't really offer a comparison.

What you need is advice from somebody that has tried lots of different combinations. If I were you and I was going to drop $1K, I'd take the time to call the different suppliers (FM, Track Dog, FCM, Goodwin) and ask them what they recommend, what they've tried and don't recommend, and why. You may find that some suppliers offer what they do because it's "popular" and they want a product in that category. Other suppliers have actually tried out *everything* and picked the best one to sell (or even spec'd out a custom, ideal set-up). Call them and ask. When you're done, please let the rest of us know what you picked and why, too.

Thanks cwise. I have been talking with FM and I've contacted FCM and have not heard back (it's been a week...). FM has been helpful and answered all my questions (great customer service so far). I've also read that Goodwin does not sell the Teins because he's had too many returned for warranty work, which makes me nervous about Teins. I havn't seen many others complaining about Teins breaking/failing... I havn't talked with Gary recently about suspension, but a while back he told me he doesn't really like the GC and really prefers the Flex to the other Teins for the adjustable shock length.

I think the Teins have that x-factor of being a fully adjustable coilover, but that the FM 2.5 is probably all I need to have a decent track setup. I'm leaning towards saving up the extra $ for the Teins so that I don't regret not getting them later...

I have run worn out stock stuff, GC/AGX with the standard CG rates, and am now running FM 1.5 (current springs, Illuminas, rear shock mounts)+ NB front sway, stock NA rear sway. Was really leaning toward the Flex, but in the end decided I didn't need to spend twice the money. I have taken a short drive in a Flex car and it IS nice, but haven't tried it on the track.

I find the illuminas' damping to be pretty good, and I like the spring rates for a daily driven car. It's maybe a little firm on the street and might be a little soft on the track, but I find it very capable and predictable. I like it enough that I didn't even change the damping settings for the track from where I leave them for my daily commute. (3f/2r, IIRC) The FM setup is miles better than the GC/AGX stuff I had - the sleeves rattled on sharp bumps and the damping was not well suited to the spring rates, IMO.

I'm running stock 6" wide 15" wheels and 205 width Kumho XS tires. Last year at Miatas at Hallett, I had no trouble hanging with a couple of otherwise similar cars with Flex and 15X8 6ULs and 225-width tires.

For me, the bang for the buck of the FM setup can't be beat. In money were no object, would I buy the Flex or one of the other $$$ setups? Probably, but I don't feel like I'm missing a lot without them.

Good luck with your decision - lots of tasty choices out there!

I'm sure the law of diminishing returns says the Teins are not worth the extra money over the FM setup. And I guess if I really think about it, I'm not competing at the track... even if the Teins were faster it wouldn't get me anywhere.

Look, on the street at 5/10ths, you probably won't feel that much of a difference. On the track, however, you'll begin to notice why you spent the additional $$. Can't speak for some of the other set-ups, but I've had stock suspensions, GC with adjustable AGXs, a variety of stiffer springs, etc. In the end, I went with the Teins and upgraded the front front springs by one notch. Awesome on the track, fully adjustable to suit conditions. When I'm done, I adjust them down and have a plush ride on the way home...

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Originally Posted by miataspeedracer

Look, on the street at 5/10ths, you probably won't feel that much of a difference. On the track, however, you'll begin to notice why you spent the additional $$. Can't speak for some of the other set-ups, but I've had stock suspensions, GC with adjustable AGXs, a variety of stiffer springs, etc. In the end, I went with the Teins and upgraded the front front springs by one notch. Awesome on the track, fully adjustable to suit conditions. When I'm done, I adjust them down and have a plush ride on the way home...

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I second here what speed just said above.

I've been tracking my Miata for more than 10 years now and I think I have plenty experience on what works well.

I started out with Konis and Racing Beat springs when I first started at the ranch back in the spring of 2000. This setup was a vast improvement over stock for a noob. Then I started doing more PCA DE and then a ton of member days at MSR and slowly the setup was showing it limitations as my skills improved. So upgraded the springs to Ground Control and kept the Konis. This setup was big steup from the previous one and I was happy with. But I reached the limitations of this setup after a couple more years of experience.

So I eventually went to the TEIN Flex. The Flex right out of the box where a noticable improvement over the Koni/GC setup. The amount of adjustability in ride height and damping is perfect for a naturally aspirated Miata driving places like MSR. And they have been hassle free for the past 4-5 years. The next thing I could upgrade is the springs rates one notch but I don't think that its necessary as it would only make daily driving more brutal. And if I was a serious time trailer the Tein MONO with high spring rates might be the next step, but I'm not into competion, just having fun at the track with my buddies is all I'm looking for and TEIN work flawlessly.

The main thing I did notice on moving up from the Konis/GC setup to the Flex is that the Koni setup at maximum stiffness equals the Tein Flex at about 5/8 stiffness (7/10 on the Flex clicks). That means the Flex can be a lot stiffer for the track than the Koni setup ever was and the travel isn't choked off from adjusting the ride height with spring compression like the GC do. And when driving on the street I would leave the Koni setup at full stiff and now I get the same ride as the Teins at about 7/10. So that kind of gives you an idea of the range of adjustability the Tein have.

My advice to you is to do it right the first time and don't mess around with other setups if you plan on being serious about tracking your car. You will eventually will be ditching that cheaper setup for a true coilover setup be it TEIN or whatever when you skills improve. Save your money and do it right.

About durability. I know at least a half dozen MSR members that use the TEIN setup for track days and they have not failed after many years of use. And these guys do more that 2-3 days a year. So they are proven by the folks that have experience. I don't have a clue what Goodwin is talking about having failures with TEIN. Talk to Gary at TDR, he has been selling them for at least 5 years and I don't think he has had any replacements.

That's a pretty good endorsement for the Teins, thanks for the info about the various setups you've run. I think there has been enough votes for the Tein that I'll just save up another $300 and get the Flex and be done with it. The worst case scenario seems to be that I'll have a better setup than I need (and that's not a bad thing at all).

Speed and Mike P know of what they speak. Lots of seriously fast guys who spend a ton of time on track use and love the Teins. Solid on the track, comfy on the street, great local seller support. It's a great product at a competitve price. You won't go wrong by buying it, and it has a ton of capability to grow with your skills.

If you're like me, though, and use your car 99+% of the time on the street, with 1 or 2 track days a year, the FM setup is capable, reasonbly comfortble, and budget friendly.

+1 for you get what you pay for. Even though I bought mine used the JICs are great. I've only been to one auto-x so far but can already tell they are miles better than the normal shock/spring combos.

I don't know crap about miatas, but I love the JIC coilovers on my rx8. It's just a big miata anyways, right?

One more thought: what about tein ss with upgraded front springs (500-550) and fatcat top mounts? Should be less than the cost of the flex with the added benefit of better spring rates and top hats that are supposed to be great. I know that I lose the adjustable shock bodies, but at the appropriate ride height will I really be losing anything?

I'm thinking this might be a nice setup for the money...

Uh... Quality of strut. There are huge differences between SS, Flex, and MonoFlex.

I thought the ss and flex internals were equivalent?

Uh I could be wrong on that, but I thought they were valved differently (of course you could revalve them but that is an additional cost). There is a large jump however to MonoFlex.

Mono is different for sure, and so is the basic. Anyone know if the ss and flex internals are the same? I know they both have 16 adjustable settings...

Well, big shocker, but I was wrong. Emilo at 949Racing said the valving on the SS and Flex is very different, and that the SS can't handle springs higher than about 450 lb/in up front. So I guess I'm back to square 1: just get the Flex!

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Originally Posted by MoonieGT

Well, big shocker, but I was wrong. Emilo at 949Racing said the valving on the SS and Flex is very different, and that the SS can't handle springs higher than about 450 lb/in up front. So I guess I'm back to square 1: just get the Flex!

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That's what everyone has been saying! Tein Flex FTMFW.

The Flex is a great off the shelf proven package. It worked great on my old NA for both autocross and track duty. With the stock seats in the car the ride comfort was very good with the damping turned down.

I drove Slowchildmiata's NB with MonoFlex on Saturday and the car was great. We were on the TMS buslot so I didn't get to see how the suspension really handled rough surfaces, but the car was great.