Recommendations for DFW wheel powder coating shop

I have a set of 4 OEM wheels for my Vue that I'm looking to have refinished (powder coated, preferably), and I'd like to find a shop here in DFW that can do it. They're 18"x8" for reference. I found one guy down in Houston on another forum I visit, but he couldn't do anything bigger than 17" wheels.

They're currently painted but 2 of them are seriously marred due to some brake fluid that got all over the paint (no, it wasn't me!). I'd need to have them all stripped first.

Any recommendations are appreciated. Thanks.

http://topkoat.net/
Joe Galvan is owner. He is a car guy. Quality is awesome. My dad and I both have had alot done there.

My dad had almost everything off his 32 vicky done there.

I've had tons of misc car parts done, bike frames, etc. I actually have a set of 17s sitting there now waiting to get done.

+1 for topkoat. He PC'd the valve cover of my '99 a few years back. Quality work!


http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0032_large.jpg

Sweeeeeet, thanks guys. I can make Kennedale after work some day.

Their was a lot of talk on the S2000 boards about wheels breaking after power coating.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=747360

also

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=718603


If you are still going to do it make sure they use a low temp process. This guy found someone local that does low temp.

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...ic=775555&st=0

Interesting discussion, but not really conclusive, IMHO. Besides, these are stock wheels, not some uber-lightweight aftermarket jobbies. I've seen post-crash pics with these wheels, and they're pretty stout. Also, it's not like these wheels will ever see anything more than a casual auto-x, if that, aside from normal "drive-it-like-it's-stolen" street use.

Just wanted to give you the info. You can make your own choice, but their is no doubt in my mind temps over 300 deg f will change aluminum.

Thanks for the heads up. That's the first time I've ever read about PC causing wheels to get brittle and snap like that. I've known several others to PC these OEM wheels and they've not shattered or snapped or bent, and I know at least one of those guys does some pretty heavy driving. I guess if they snap, I'll know why!

Why is it when you go on a Honda forum it's full of flashy avatars, gifs, icons, and alot of opinionated idiocy? I waded through some of the crap and found this post by Emilio at 949Racing. He also didn't have any animated crap on his post; go figure.

There are special low temp powders that can be cured at temps below 150°. Your typical powder coater does not use these powders. The common used powders curing closer to 300° most definitely have an adverse effect on T-4, T-6 heat treated aluminum A356.0 and 6061 alloys used in road wheels whether they are gravity cast, low pressure cast, flow formed, billet or net forged. The stronger the base design, the less likely it is to fail when weakened by improper PC.

For those that might argue that brake heat has the same effect, it doesn't. Brake heat is transient. Powder curing is sustained unfortunately, not too dissimilar to annealing some fabricators will perform on 6061 T-6 to make it easier to form or repair.

Your average street guy will never find out about aluminum wheel failures due to powdercoating. Those of use that have been around motorsports for a few decades, hear of them every now and then. At least two well documented instances in Spec Miata in the last 3 years. Post crash metalurgical anaylsis determined PC to be the cause. So yeah, don't believe everything you read on the interweb http://www.s2ki.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif

Powder coating of any kind voids the warranty on our 6UL and 6ULR wheels.

5Zigen generally makes a good wheel so I would be surprised if the failure shown in the OP was a result of any design or manufacturing deficiency. Will be interested to see what the root cause was,

Ok I call BS on Emilio. I know he is supposed to be a respected miata person, but that is just BS.

T-4 can be aged to T-6 by holding it at 400F for a few hours (depending on thickness).... That means it gets STRONGER by holding at those temperatures. This process is called artificial aging. To anneal (weaken) you have to reach temperatures over 700F.

FYI welding locally anneals aluminum to T-0 the COMMON practice to get the strength back without heat treating the whole part is to artificially age it at 400F.

The only thing powder coating can do is "over-age" aluminum, but if it is PROPERLY heat treated T-6 it would take several hours to overage and get any significant loss in strength. The drop off is quick after that. So... If the wheel was improperly heat treated originally it IS possible for powdercoating to cause significant loss in strength, but the wheel was already bad.

Yeah, wasn't really intending to start a "PC your wheels is going to shatter them" thread. ;P I'm not real concerned about it. Sure, a few hard-core racers have had PC'd wheels break on them, but the ol' Vue is getting up in miles now and I'm not going to be doing any (more) track or AX time in it (probably... :D ). If I shatter a PC wheel, then I'll post up and say OMGWTFBBQ U D00DZ WERE RIGHT I'M SUCH A N00B!!! mkay? :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowchildmiata

Ok I call BS on Emilio. I know he is supposed to be a respected miata person, but that is just BS.

---

Yep, the guy's that make wheels don't know what they are talking about. ;) I think you will get the same answer from any wheel mfg. if you ask about PC ing their wheels.

Not saying you won't be fine in this case, but I would never PC coat light weight wheels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robert

Yep, the guy's that make wheels don't know what they are talking about. ;) I think you will get the same answer from any wheel mfg. if you ask about PC ing their wheels.

Not saying you won't be fine in this case, but I would never PC coat light weight wheels.

---

I'm quite inclined to agree. Then again, these tubby btches are about as far from Superleggera as you can get. OEM GM wheels are not exactly known for their Collin Chapman-ness. They're built to handle dumbass drivers curbing them and driving over massive potholes in Detroit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robert

Yep, the guy's that make wheels don't know what they are talking about. ;)

---

I am saying that. Just because he makes wheels doesn't mean he knows how to design them or anything about metallurgy/ heat treating. He pays others to do that for him, as he should.

Like I said previously the temperatures that PC subjects the wheels to will NOT anneal any cast process heat treated wheel like Emilio claims. That is rubbish. It has the possibility if you had a wheel that was on the high side of T6 heat treat that it would age it to a T7 and have a slight increase in brittlement and loss of strength.

Show me some proof that wheels act completely different than any other cast aluminum that has been heat treat.

That being said forged aluminum is a different ball game and it would be adversely changed. So if he is trying to lump them together that is his ignorance.

I just checked and Supperleggera wheels are forged...

Ignorance is bliss

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowchildmiata

I just checked and Supperleggera wheels are forged...

Ignorance is bliss

---

I wasn't referring to any specific wheels, I was using "Supperleggera" in the sense Lamborghini does, meaning "super light" in Italian...

Enough ranting about PC destroying wheels! Please stop hijacking my thread! :)

I agree Dante, The info was more for others that may be reading this thread thinking about PC ing their light weight race wheels.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dante

I wasn't referring to any specific wheels, I was using "Supperleggera" in the sense Lamborghini does, meaning "super light" in Italian...

---

I thought you meant the wheels, too. And I was surprised how heavy they were, yet still be called Supperleggera. That's right up there with the Red Delicious apple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowchildmiata

I am saying that. Just because he makes wheels doesn't mean he knows how to design them or anything about metallurgy/ heat treating. He pays others to do that for him, as he should.

---

What he said.

Before you guys just write off what slowchildmiata is saying, you might want to crack open some engineering text books. He knows what he's talking about, it's his job to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrj512

I thought you meant the wheels, too. And I was surprised how heavy they were, yet still be called Supperleggera. That's right up there with the Red Delicious apple.

---

Yeah, what's up with that? Their neither very red, nor delicious. Now the Pink Lady, on the other hand... mmm that's a juicy one I enjoy from time to time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miatamoto

What he said.

Before you guys just write off what slowchildmiata is saying, you might want to crack open some engineering text books. He knows what he's talking about, it's his job to.

---

I wasn't writing him off, but I think in my case the risk is quite small. If I was dealing with a lightweight racing wheel, I wouldn't consider PC given what I've read on the S2k forums. These OEM wheels, OTOH, are pretty durn stout. Besides, I got 8 of them. So what if a couple go kerplunk. ;)

"What he said.

Before you guys just write off what slowchildmiata is saying, you might want to crack open some engineering text books. He knows what he's talking about, it's his job to. "


To cloud the waters even more

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...151053&page=10

Without knowing all the variables of the material and temper of the wheel to start and the temp and time the powder coater will use (is he going to crank up the temp for faster thru put) no one can say what the effects will be. I am going to listen to the wheel mfg. over someone on the net I don't know.

You may need to reread what I wrote because I think you have misunderstood my position and who I was addressing. I said the risk of the PC temperature cycle having a negative effect to cast wheels is minimal to none. My comments so far have been debunking claims of damage to cast wheels and a quote from a salesman named Emilio (I think you took one of my comments as being addressed to you which it also was not). The reason wheel companies say not to is because some prep methods for stripping the paint can damage the wheel and not to mention the fact that it is a process out of their control that they don't want to be liable for.

You have nothing to worry about, which is the position you have taken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robert

To cloud the waters even more

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...151053&page=10

Without knowing all the variables of the material and temper of the wheel to start and the temp and time the powder coater will use (is he going to crank up the temp for faster thru put) no one can say what the effects will be. I am going to listen to the wheel mfg. over someone on the net I don't know.

---

Did you even read the whole link? They cite numbers that say it won't hurt.

Powder coating is a CONTROLLED process the guy you quoted doesn't realize that. You can't "crank up" temp with powder coating.

Read CoryPad's post. His numbers are very conservative and still show ok.

Yes I did.

some say it's not a problem others say it could be.

I have seen enough posts about broken wheels after PC ing, more than I linked to and what the mfg say about it, that it's not worth the risk to me.

Sorry about the debate Dante, this will be my last post on the subject. Everyone can make their own choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robert

some say it's not a problem others say it could be.

---

The conversation evolved into it being ok when they got a few details and actually ran numbers and found a large margin of safety. You quoted a guy that didn't know any details... and his response made sense for what HE knew at that point in conversation(nothing). You are reading it with blinders on.

I too have seen these threads, but I have also NEVER seen ANY proof for cast wheels that the temperature cycle contributed in ANY way (Like I said earlier forged wheels are different and people keep lumping them together). You are citing a guy as subject expert that doesn't even know the difference between accelerated aging and annealing temperatures.

Sorry Dante, I am also done.

LOL Thanks for the clarifications guys. Healthy discussion with relevant facts to make an educated decision that could potentially f up my car, my family, and/or my wallet are appreciated.

Slowchildmiata,

If I read your posts right. I think we agree somewhat that it can cause problems on forged wheels and wheels that are borderline to start with, at least.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowchildmiata

Ok I call BS on Emilio.

snip

The only thing powder coating can do is "over-age" aluminum, but if it is PROPERLY heat treated T-6 it would take several hours to overage and get any significant loss in strength. The drop off is quick after that. So... If the wheel was improperly heat treated originally it IS possible for powdercoating to cause significant loss in strength, but the wheel was already bad.

---

Looks like you agree with Emilio then. He said the stronger the base design of the wheel the less likely it will fail from improper PC technique.
Keyword here is improper. He also said in later posts on that thread how sand or bead blasting a wheel can cause or expand micro fissures in the wheel and that chemical paint removal and wheel prep should be used instead. These are all logical to me and I can see a powder coater being ignorant of these warnings or not vigilant as to the temperature or duration in the kiln.

Yes 100%. Forged wheels are RUINED by temperature cycle.

If you have a wheel that was T6 and you powder coat it multiple times you can also overage it and make it brittle. T4 would take even more times before it got past T7.

Of all the failures I have seen most are forged wheels (which based on the science/math is a known no no) and the cast ones have root causes else where (ie lug nuts not tight, wheel spacers that prevent centric with hub creating harmonic vibe to failure, chemical stripping of previous coating that chemically anneals the aluminum, or burning off previous coating which also can anneal the aluminum. (last 2 are improper methods of stripping aluminum, but have been done by people who don't know what they are doing)

My main points are: Powder coating does NOT anneal wheels like some claim and if the cast wheel is in good condition and is standard alloy/ heat treat there is almost no chance of damage being done to the wheel by the powder coating heat cycle.

Then what is the best way to strip paint from a wheel if chemicals anneal the wheel?

Sounds good. I am glad we got that clarified.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nails

Looks like you agree with Emilio then. He said the stronger the base design of the wheel the less likely it will fail from improper PC technique.
Keyword here is improper. He also said in later posts on that thread how sand or bead blasting a wheel can cause or expand micro fissures in the wheel and that chemical paint removal and wheel prep should be used instead. These are all logical to me and I can see a powder coater being ignorant of these warnings or not vigilant as to the temperature or duration in the kiln.

---

I wouldn't say that (he lumps forgings in with castings and claims PC temps anneal, and that there is conclusive data showing pc is at fault with NO backing and NO scientific method), but of course stronger designs are less likely to have issues. And I also 100% agree you shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet which is why I am trying to educate. I still stand by baking on powder coating does not damage a cast wheel.

Chemical paint removal is higher risk than sand/bead blasting IMO. Sand/bead blasting errodes the surface and stress relieves it. And from what I've seen in other parts/materials the expansion to micro fissures will make them LESS likely to propgate cracks (the errosion smooths them out so has lower stress riser). I would rather have sand/bead than chemical stripping personally. The risk of wrong chemicals being used is too high.

Not all chemicals paint removers will damage the cast aluminum, but there are some...

I'm going to avoid the argument on temperatures and simply post my recommendation. I know this might look suspicious being my first post but I'm not a spammer. This just happened to be the first thread I opened.

Specialized Performance Coating

This place is top notch and very affordable. I'm very happy with the work. They were EXTREMELY knowledgeable and took the time to not only explain the entire process to me along the way but make sure I was getting exactly what I wanted. I actually discussed the temperature issue with the owner of SPC over the phone for a good amount of time. He was well aware of the potential issues powder coating can have on wheels and said he would take special care to use lower than normal temperatures.

I had four wheels (17x9) powder coated for $275, prices can vary based on size and color.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...g?t=1259164975

http://www.spcoating.com/index.html

1107 California Lane #209
Arlington, Texas 76015
(817) 274-1947

Philipio, thanks for sharing. What did they use to prep? Bead/sand blast?

Philipio did you go to their place?

Curious because they used to have all their powder coating done through Top Koat... Wonder if they got their own setup now or were still running it through Top Koat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SixAce

Philipio, thanks for sharing. What did they use to prep? Bead/sand blast?

---

I believe the wheels were sand blasted but I could be wrong. I got my wheels done back in January I think and don't remember all the details unfortunately.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slowchildmiata

Philipio did you go to their place?

Curious because they used to have all their powder coating done through Top Koat... Wonder if they got their own setup now or were still running it through Top Koat.

---

Yes I went in the shop when I got my wheels done. From the looks of everything I never once got the impression they didn't do their own powder coating. They never mentioned anything to me about it either.

Actually looking at the pics I can tell they do their own now based on the coverage...

Based on the coloration of the bare aluminum they were most likely blasted.