I have a turboed 90 Miata that previously had a link ECU. I "upgraded" to a Megasquirt plug and play from DIY Autotune. I called the only reputable shops that I am familiar with and none of them tune Megasquirt.
Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.
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I have a turboed 90 Miata that previously had a link ECU. I "upgraded" to a Megasquirt plug and play from DIY Autotune. I called the only reputable shops that I am familiar with and none of them tune Megasquirt.
Anyone have any suggestions? Thanks.
mr brg will be responding shortly.
Out of curiousity, which MS did you get? Did you run the LINK with sequential fuel injection? What wires did you have to switch to make the change? Just the 3 or 4 you had to change to get the LINK to work? I ask because that is my super-far-off plan.
I hear that Track Dog Racing is starting to get into MSPNP, so they may be willing to take a tuning job. I too am running a 1.6 LINK and may change to the MSPNP some day so I also share Rob's interest in info about what the ECU change job involved.
Brg is pro and have 2 years head start on anyone of taxas on top of the technical knowlage.
You just plug it in and install a real iat. It's pnp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
I think we'll all be replacing our LINKs someday. :(
No, you don't know what you are talking about. For the link install, several changes are made to the stock wiring harness, including modifications to the injector harness for sequential injection, and changing around a couple pins on the harness where it plugs in to the ECU. If the MSPNP is designed to simply replace the stock ECU, LINk users would need to undo several of these changes, unless you can change the programming to accommodate the wiring changes. either way, it is not plug it in and go for us. We also already have a "real IAT", so I am interested to know if the MS one uses the same voltages, or if it can be programmed to accept the one we have.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man
Yep, I've been tuning a lot more MS cars lately. I use a great MD-250 at Exatorq in Rowlett which is also probably the cheapest dyno in town; if you don't know much about dynos I can tell you why it's the better or possibly best dyno out there. No one wants to tune MS because there's no money in it. They want you to buy whatever they sell so they can charge you labor on the install and then they stick another $500+ to tune it. I'll tune it, but only after I have a look at the car and you get a leak-down test to make sure everything is working properly.
I'd prefer that you tune the car yourself, that's kind of how MS works. If you want me to do it bring the car by and I'll get it road tuned so you can drive around town and then we can schedule 1-hour on the dyno and get it making real power. If you have a starter table for it, send the MSQ to [email protected] and I'll have a look over it. A lot of people with identical set-ups think they can run the same tables, this is totally wrong.
I'm not a real business or anything, nor am I bonded so you may be more comfortable using TDR.
Also, if you guys are interested in doing MS, I'm about to get in on a group-buy for 4 MSII's from a Greek dude who is doing awesome stuff with MSII that no one else in the world is doing, let me know if you want to get in.
His car is batch fire. If you want sequential fuel, I can explain that later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob®
How did you mod the 1.6 harness for sequential fuel? Did you add 2 wires? If you have a 1.6 car I recommend you keep the factory thermoswitch water temp sensor to trigger the fans. It works removed in some cars but not all, mine is one where it does not work without it so I had to run an output to trigger the fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
You can run any sensor with a linear output that you want if you use Easytherm and calculate the output range. I do this with every GM sensor, GM sensors are cheap, and they're the standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
Instructions to use sequential injections:Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
1) Locate terminals 2Y and 2Z at the ECU (use the diagram on page #5). Crimp the supplied ECU connectors onto the dual lead wire included with the ECU. Insert these into terminals 2Y and 2Z. In the photo below, the white and green wires are the two added for sequential fuel injection.
2) Run the two new wires from the ECU through the firewall using the hole located behind the windscreen washer bottle. This is the same hole used for the ground wire.
3) Leave these two new wires for now. Section 5 will cover adding the new wires to the fuel injection wire harness.
4) Remove the tape around the wire harness on all four of the fuel injectors. Cut off the stock fuel injector connectors about 2” back from the connector itself.
5) Take the four new fuel injector connectors supplied with the fuel injectors and cut the wires down to 2” in length.
6) On positions #1 & #2 splice the new connectors on the harness just as the stock connectors were configured using the red butt connectors.
7) On fuel injector position #3 connect one side of the new injector connector to the White/Red wire. Cut the Yellow wire going to the #3 injector off and tape it off because it will not longer be used. The other wire on the new connector will be spliced to the wire run though the firewall connected to location 2Y at the ECU.
8) On fuel injector position #4 connect one side of the new connector to the White/Red wire. Cut the Yellow/Black wire going to the #4 injector off and tape it off because it will no longer be used. The other wire on the new connector will be spliced to the wire run through the firewall connected to location 2Z at the ECU.
Some of the other 1.6 LINK wiring mods that I pulled out of the install manual:
These terminals will need to be moved
Old Location Color New Location Purpose
1K Light Green / Yellow 2H Boost control
1F White / Yellow 2J Knock sensor
1P Blue / Yellow 1M Intake air temperature
If there are wires in 2H, 2J, or 1M, remove them and tape them off. They will not be used.
Cut the two Black/Green wires coming from the 2C and 2D pins about 1-1/2” back from the ECU connector. These wires are signal ground wires that carry small amplitude signals to a ground point.... twist it together with the 16 gauge wire included with the ECU... Run the new 16 gage wire through the firewall....Run the new ground wire behind the engine to the bolt that holds the ground strap connectedto driver’s side rear of the cylinder head.
Details? PM if you can't/don't want to say it in public view? Switching ECUs is about the very bottom of my to-do list, but I do like doing things out of order if there is sufficient reason. The only real requirement I personally have is that I *need* the factory AC to work. My WB setup mimics an LC-1, so that needs to work (but that's standard anyway, so no worries there). Other than that, being able to run more than 18psi without having to hack the living crap out of everything would be a nice option as well (again, standard with the MS, I know).Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
If I read the MS install guides I could get it with no issues. I run my LINK with sequential, so being able to reuse the harness I made for that would be great.Quote:
His car is batch fire. If you want sequential fuel, I can explain that later.
Yes, you add two wires to the ECU connector. I haven't looked into it since 2003, but you might have had to move a pin in the connector as well...Like Titus said, you have to move 3 or 4 pins in the ECU connector for the LINK to work with batch fuel, then whatever changes for sequential. Nothing is remotely difficult to undo (connecting some grounds right at the ECU together probably the "hardest" change made), but it'd be nice to know what you don't need to make stock again, just to change/upgrade something on the MS.Quote:
How did you mod the 1.6 harness for sequential fuel? Did you add 2 wires?
That stays put for the LINK to work in a 1.6l car, so I would plan on keeping that, as I'm sure Titus would too. Especially since it sounds like we're on the same "change as little wiring/physical parts as possible" page.Quote:
If you have a 1.6 car I recommend you keep the factory thermoswitch water temp sensor to trigger the fans. It works removed in some cars but not all, mine is one where it does not work without it so I had to run an output to trigger the fan.
I'd leave the wires physically in place, but rewire for batch-fire if you're on MS1 which cannot do sequential fuel.
You also have to change some of the wires at the diagnostic connector in the engine bay. I know for the 4-wire O2 conversion and boost control solenoid. Might be something else too...like I said, I haven't had to mess with any of it since 2003.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
Yep... And I took advantage of the LINK pin that can control the fans, creating a new circuit with relay that triggers the fans in parallel at what ever temperature I program in to the ECU. Bottom line, the switch will be a buttload of work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob®
I don't care about public view, I didn't know if people wanted me to waste keystrokes on something they already knew. There's no secret, if you're interested I'll put you in contact with him. He does some interesting stuff with the neutral and clutch switches that no one else is doing which will make AC work better than factory. I've run AC on my car with MS1 and had no problems setting the deadband and upper/lower limits and PWM frequencies to make the IAC valve work in the summer. This guy does a better job with a few mods. He told me earlier today that in Greece he uses AC 9 months per year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob®
You want MS2. MS1 only reads two wheel teeth (TDC and 180*) so it reads all 4 teeth on the CAS. You need to convert to a Hall crank wheel, then mod your CAS with only one tooth as the cam sync, and then you can run sequential fuel. So yes, it can be done. Have fun doing the work. I've been running batch on my car and several others and it runs great but fuel economy will suffer. I'm only getting 32mpg in my turbo car, lol. I will do this to the track car fairly soon.Quote:
If I read the MS install guides I could get it with no issues. I run my LINK with sequential, so being able to reuse the harness I made for that would be great.
I don't have a lot of experience with Link so I can't comment. I know the Link tuner interface makes me want to throw myself out a window.Quote:
That stays put for the LINK to work in a 1.6l car, so I would plan on keeping that, as I'm sure Titus would easier. Especially since it sounds like we're on the same "change as little wiring/physical parts as possible" page.
Same here. Which is why I asked what changes the OP made :)
If you make the switch before me, please share the details. I will do so as well if I'm first up.
Leave that relay in place and we can trigger it off anything (JS2 since you won't ever need a boost controller).Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
I would be happy to email you the LINK install and tuning PDFs if you ever feel like banging your head against the wall ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
It will likely be a few years before I make the switch, and may end up dumping it all for an LS1 anyway, but you never know.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob®
Cool... at least one thing would not need to be changed back!Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
lol @ the DFW crew finally getting into MegaSquirt. It only took us 4-years. I managed to pre-order mine, what a trend-setter.
Yeah, I was planning on making my own MS-at-least-2, but the thought of the PNP was always in the back of my mind. But that's back when the MS2 was brandy new and everyone said only the MSPNP could run AC and I was in NJ. So that's how important switching ECUs is to me. I'm sure by the time I feel like making the switch, MS8 will be out. I've been happily keeping my head in the sand about what version can/can't do what just because I know there's better places to put that money.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
I guess since the LINK was one of the first standalones I ever had experience with, it's not that bad to me. RTlink took some time adjusting to, but overall I've tinkered with much worse (the original SDS the main one). Unless you're speaking about using just the keypad. Eff that. I can't stand using that just to get my base boost number.
And I always welcome keystrokes :) I avoid all internet Miata forums except this one and my old NJ forum, with the very rare CR.net post, so pretty much anything about MS is new to me. I have not the slightest idea who this Greek guy you're referring to is. I saw you say you're about to get in on a group buy for MS2s, so it piqued my interest. I didn't know if what he was doing is supposed to be a secret or anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob®
I have this one: http://megasquirtpnp.com/
To the best of my knowledge it was still batch fire and not sequential.
Whoops. User error. Ignore this post.
I reverted back to the stock harness configuration (under the dash) before I installed the Megasquirt. I had to get rid of the Link MAP sensor wires that plugged into the factory MAF. I did not have any optional Link components, just the basic setup which included non-functioning rev limiter. haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
I will call Gary. He was more than helpful when I was looking for brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
His MS2 boxes ate totally PNP. People who can't get ACT working properly lack effort, not knowledge. Tuner Studio is phenomenal.
Honestly, I don't care about your business affiliation but I appreciate you being forthcoming in that regard. What I really care about is knowing that I am getting my car tuned by someone with valuable experience and the know-how to make my car run good under a variety of conditions. If that's you then I don't really care if you are officially a business so long as you treat me fair and have legitimate expertise. I have experience with high horsepower turbo cars and I have indirectly worked with some of the "big dogs" in the local tuning world, so I have fairly high standards with regard to what I expect a tuner to be able to do, yet I am also very realistic. I will email you soon. Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
Anyone here ever use Hondata? After having experienced Hondata, using the Link ECU was like going back in time. The Link ECU was neat in the sense that it was better than your garden variety piggy backs, but it really is pretty dated. I had Titan motorsports in Orlando tune my Miata the first go around (I used to live there) and they hated using Datalog Lab.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
The IAT on my Link ecu was fairly ghetto. Haha. I suppose it did the truck but it was not the most elegant solution I've ever seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
I'll go ahead and date myself here: I remember when the MSPNP originally came out, and I believe Tuner Studio wasn't around. Mega Log Viewer or something? I forget..like I said, I never really bothered looking into it because it's not a priority to me. But back then NOBODY said AC would work on anything but the PNP. That was my sticking point from day-one: I wanted to build my own just for the sake of building my own (I'm a nerd like that), but I needed my AC. Oh well, one day. Thanks for the input thus far.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
It may look ghetto, but it works well. I'm supercharged so I drilled out a spot for it inside my dummy throttle body. Replacing it with something different would be a PITA. The again, I would probably have a better chance reselling the LINK if I had it to include.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.
How long ago were you in Orlando? I moved from there almost 2 years ago to the date. I knew a few people that got tuned at Titan (not Miatas though).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.
Agreed and disagreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
The IAT setup for the LINK on a turbo car is ghetto. No way about it - you have to poke a hole in a rubber line, run the wires through, then 100% seal a rubber line with two wires coming out of it. Horrible execution. And God forbid you pinch/cut one of those wires - you'll be full boost, then get practically thrown through the windshield when it suddenly reads 100°C and makes the car almost impossible to drive until you can rewire, and thus reseal, the thing. Good times :(
Selling the LINK as complete as you can get is the best/only way to sell it for sure. My big issue will be that I cut the trace on the board to get it to read my WBO2. I'm not selling it with my WBO2 setup, and I honestly have no clue how/if it works without one after you cut that trace. But I wasn't even thinking to bother salvaging the IAT and knock sensor and things, knowing that nobody would even look at buying it without all that. Not that the knock sensors have ever worked for more than a day..I digress.
I moved back to Texas in the summer of 07. I can't believe it has been that long. Where at in Orlando did you live? Orlando sucks balls, right? I hated that place. Haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob®
Mr.brg...I would like in on this MS group buy...pm me the info pls thanks
I'll make a thread about it when I get closer to ordering. I still have to get my van and trailer first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsrturbo
I was actually in Oviedo, literally 3-4 miles from UCF for about 6 months, then Apopka for just about 5 months. I worked in Sanford (still technically based there). I was there 11 months and I couldn't stand it. Winters were gorgeous, don't get me wrong, but that was just about the only positive thing about the place. That and maybe the street racing scene (not on highways...the organized one). Most of my mother's family lives in Orlando/Winter Park (and my parents live in Eustis), but I still kind of cringe at the thought of when I have to go out there for work/family trips - I just dislike the area that much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.
Same here.
Well guys, I spoke with mr brg at length and he really knows his stuff. I would definitely recommend him to tune your Megasquirt. However, after careful consideration I have decided to go with the AEM ems. I will let you all know how that goes.
If anyone needs a brand new Megasquirt plug and play for a 90-93 Miata, hit me up.
Can you pass inspection with the AEM EMS? That was my concern when looking at it... (CELs)
How much I'm in the market for one.