2004 MSM, spun rod bearing, I think...

I can remember when I first brought the MSM home from the dealer and told my wife I had bought a Miata. She was almost disgusted saying that was a girl car and she don't like them, then she saw it and could not believe it was a Miata. She really liked the flippy thing in the back, you know the spoiler. The car has served me very well to get me back and forth to work, and the weekend date car, but trouble was brewing in paradise, all good things come to a end, or pause.

http://www.dfwmiata.com/attachment.p...9&d=1363037855

Well now over the years I have put over 100K in miles and have spun a rod bearing, thought it would last longer, but what you going to do. I looked around DFW in Texas for a shop and found Running Performance which specialize in Honda performance, but they all work about the same, so I sat down with the owner Izzy, and we went over the repairs. The plan is to go with Wiseco forged pistons married up to Eagle H rods, performance bearing to increase oil flow, change the oil pump, timing belt, and water pump. In the future I may want a little more boost, but I can say the car had great performance with excellent handling from the factory.

During the inspection of the car we started it up, and it purred like it did when it was new, but you give it a little gas you'll hear a low end knock. Izzy said that I was it sound like a rod bearing. During the tear down he is going to verify this, along with checking the block, and clutch. He then made a comment on my throttle inlet tube, I had done a redneck repair job with a roll of gorilla tape http://forums.finalgear.com/images/s...tom/tongue.gif, at this point I found he made custom turbo tubing for cars, this will be no problem to fix.

http://www.dfwmiata.com/attachment.p...0&d=1363039987

I am going to keep this tread open through the repairs, I also guess this would be a great time for suggestions for small changes that could help in not only performance, but gas mileage, HP is great until you hit the pump.

I talked with Izzy today at Running Performance and he says he will have the engine out by tomorrow. He is also going to send me picture updates with the progress, and damage I have caused. I will keep you posted as long as they don't lock this thread. Once I have the car back I will update this site with proof of ownership.

Sorry for your troubled times. Hope it works on for the better in the end.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Miatie

Sorry for your troubled times. Hope it works on for the better in the end.

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Well I have been wanting to add a few mods to the car, perfect time to do it.

Did he check lifter-lash?

Dropping to 8.5:1 compression?

For reference, izzy is a good guy, he knows how to build stuff, your car will make power if you want it to when he is done with the internals.

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Originally Posted by wizzurp

For reference, izzy is a good guy, he knows how to build stuff, your car will make power if you want it to when he is done with the internals.

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Thanks, he seems pretty good, easy guy to talk with.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Miatie

Sorry for your troubled times. Hope it works on for the better in the end.

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Its all good, Running Performance got the oil pan off today, bad rod bearing on the last cylinder.

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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq

Did he check lifter-lash?

Dropping to 8.5:1 compression?

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I don't even change my oil anymore, also if you drop your compression, won't you lose low end torque.

Latest update on build from Izzy at Running performance.


http://www.dfwmiata.com/attachment.p...7&d=1363419151
http://www.dfwmiata.com/attachment.p...8&d=1363419156
http://www.dfwmiata.com/attachment.p...9&d=1363419164
http://www.dfwmiata.com/attachment.p...0&d=1363419174
http://www.dfwmiata.com/attachment.p...1&d=1363419182

So now I am thinking of ways to get a little more power since the car will have a forged bottom end.

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Originally Posted by dfwcouple

So now I am thinking of ways to get a little more power since the car will have a forged bottom end.

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Probably way out of my league, here, since I was a Ford Turbocoupe guy, not a Mazdaspeed guy, but if it were me...

First, I would look at the OBDII operation, and see if increasing boost or changing compression would throw a code causing an inspection failure.

If not...

If the engine has forged internals, including pistons, I'd look at lowering compression and making up for it with increased boost, provided the injector bandwidth was adequate to keep up with the increased boost given a good enough fuel pump. or the availability of a a fuel pump that could keep up, such as a Walbro 255lph high pressure. The thought process here is that power is provided by the mass of expanding air. For example, 20PSI of boost in a lower compression engine has a slightly higher mass than 20PSI in a high compression engine of the same displacement, meaning more expanding gas upon ignition for the lower compression engine and thus more power.

The Turbocoupe I had was 10psi/155 hp stock; increasing the boost to 20psi and adding the 255lph hp Walbro made it a LOT more responsive, since the fuel pressure regulator was vacuum/boost regulated, and the higher performance pump could keep up until redline in theory. (I never tested it, since that would have been over 170mph. Never had it dyno'ed for actual numbers, but the difference was extremenly evident.) I wasn't worried about the boost pressure, since some guys were running significantly higher than 20psi on forged pistons, (with bigger or more injectors) without ill effects until they had to pay for gas.

In the Turbocoupe world, boost limits are primarily determined by pistons and fuel. Cast pistons (even hyper-u) don't last at more than 10psi on those cars. On the other hand, this may not be true for all cars, since I have seen a reference to turbo Solstices running 18psi on cast pistons. Stock fuel pumps often can't keep up with high boost, which results in pinging and holes in the pistons in the Turbocoupe world.

The general rule of thumb with a TurboCoupe was a pound of boost equals six to ten ponies, probably closer to six. On the other hand, and better for us, a guy I met at the Wednesday night DFWMiata meet told me that the turbo gave him more than 10 horses per pound of boost on his Miata. If that is true, and I could run 20psi on a Mazdaspeed compared to its stock numbers, how much would my gas and tire bills go up if I had a Mazdaspeed?

The folks who know more about Miatas and Mazdaspeeds can probably give you more applicable advice, especially about fuel injector limitations and fuel pressure regulators. Intercoolers also come into play, but the cast/forged switch doesn't affect intercooler choice as much as it does the "how much boost will I run" decision.

I hope this helps, even if the knowledge comes from a different turbo'd car. Hopefully, a bunch of knowledgeable folks jump in and tell me how much and where I am incorrect or it is different in Mazdaspeeds, so we can all learn.

Ouch, that bearing is toast. Time to have her machined and get some fresh bearings and your forged internals in her!

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Originally Posted by dfwcouple

I don't even change my oil anymore, also if you drop your compression, won't you lose low end torque.

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Not if you tune for it.

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Originally Posted by Walsted

but the cast/forged switch doesn't affect intercooler choice as much as it does the "how much boost will I run" decision.

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Depends on the turbonator. Small turbos move less air than large turbos at a constant manifold pressure.

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Originally Posted by wizzurp

Ouch, that bearing is toast. Time to have her machined and get some fresh bearings and your forged internals in her!

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Working on it.

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Originally Posted by Walsted

Probably way out of my league, here, since I was a Ford Turbocoupe guy, not a Mazdaspeed guy, but if it were me...

First, I would look at the OBDII operation, and see if increasing boost or changing compression would throw a code causing an inspection failure.

If not...

If the engine has forged internals, including pistons, I'd look at lowering compression and making up for it with increased boost, provided the injector bandwidth was adequate to keep up with the increased boost given a good enough fuel pump. or the availability of a a fuel pump that could keep up, such as a Walbro 255lph high pressure. The thought process here is that power is provided by the mass of expanding air. For example, 20PSI of boost in a lower compression engine has a slightly higher mass than 20PSI in a high compression engine of the same displacement, meaning more expanding gas upon ignition for the lower compression engine and thus more power.

The Turbocoupe I had was 10psi/155 hp stock; increasing the boost to 20psi and adding the 255lph hp Walbro made it a LOT more responsive, since the fuel pressure regulator was vacuum/boost regulated, and the higher performance pump could keep up until redline in theory. (I never tested it, since that would have been over 170mph. Never had it dyno'ed for actual numbers, but the difference was extremenly evident.) I wasn't worried about the boost pressure, since some guys were running significantly higher than 20psi on forged pistons, (with bigger or more injectors) without ill effects until they had to pay for gas.

In the Turbocoupe world, boost limits are primarily determined by pistons and fuel. Cast pistons (even hyper-u) don't last at more than 10psi on those cars. On the other hand, this may not be true for all cars, since I have seen a reference to turbo Solstices running 18psi on cast pistons. Stock fuel pumps often can't keep up with high boost, which results in pinging and holes in the pistons in the Turbocoupe world.

The general rule of thumb with a TurboCoupe was a pound of boost equals six to ten ponies, probably closer to six. On the other hand, and better for us, a guy I met at the Wednesday night DFWMiata meet told me that the turbo gave him more than 10 horses per pound of boost on his Miata. If that is true, and I could run 20psi on a Mazdaspeed compared to its stock numbers, how much would my gas and tire bills go up if I had a Mazdaspeed?

The folks who know more about Miatas and Mazdaspeeds can probably give you more applicable advice, especially about fuel injector limitations and fuel pressure regulators. Intercoolers also come into play, but the cast/forged switch doesn't affect intercooler choice as much as it does the "how much boost will I run" decision.

I hope this helps, even if the knowledge comes from a different turbo'd car. Hopefully, a bunch of knowledgeable folks jump in and tell me how much and where I am incorrect or it is different in Mazdaspeeds, so we can all learn.

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Well I am not going to lower the compression, there is a fix that will allow you to turn up the boost on the factory ecu, but you can not go above 12 psi on the factory injectors, factory boost is about 8.5. I have never heard of 20 psi on a miata 1.8 liter, that sounds really extreme, plus I still want to drive the car, not look at it for fear I will blow it up.

What I have been thinking about once I get the this rebuild done, first I am going to replace the factory exhaust all the way to the downpipe and install a more efficient turbo than the factory one. I was also looking at replacing the turbo plumbing with a new intercooler and intake. Lastly looking at putting in 330 to 400 cc injectors, would hate to end up with holes in them brand new pistons. Way later down the road I think I want to reflash the ECU, or go with a MegaSquirt if we move to the country as planed were they no longer OBII test the car.

Once again I have to say I am new to all this turbo stuff, last time I built a car, we still used carburetors, displacement was king, and gas was cheap. All post are welcome.

You need to get on Miataturbo and start reading. It will help you get away from carburator logic to EFI logic.

I opened up the breathing and exhaust on mine with a better intake/downpipe and exhaust. With the stock electronic boost controller, I can consistently see 10.5-11psi

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Originally Posted by SirHustlerEsq

You need to get on Miataturbo and start reading. It will help you get away from carburator logic to EFI logic.

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Yes I know, they are making more power at of these small engines, than I ever thought possible back in the 80's. If you go back and look at the muscle cars we dreamed about, they really didn't have that much HP. EFI has made a huge difference in tuning giving you the ability to make more with less.

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Originally Posted by Magma

I opened up the breathing and exhaust on mine with a better intake/downpipe and exhaust. With the stock electronic boost controller, I can consistently see 10.5-11psi

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I have read with the factory boost controller you get boost cut at 10.5 PSI with the factory ECU.

For mazdaspeed specific information, go to mazda-speed.com With the stock ECU you are pretty much limited to 321cc injectors and about 11psi boost. With exhaust/dp and intake, you can expect about 200-210 rwhp. Not much tuning can be done with stock ECU (besides BEGi refla$h)

^ what he said

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Originally Posted by dfwcouple

I have read with the factory boost controller you get boost cut at 10.5 PSI with the factory ECU.

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I still get a boost cut at WOT above 6250, that can be bypassed with a simple resistor, but I like the safety factor

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Originally Posted by BigDmiata

For mazdaspeed specific information, go to mazda-speed.com With the stock ECU you are pretty much limited to 321cc injectors and about 11psi boost. With exhaust/dp and intake, you can expect about 200-210 rwhp. Not much tuning can be done with stock ECU (besides BEGi refla$h)

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200 rwhp is more than enough for me to get back and forth to work, I have also been look at the BEGI reflash for a drive-ability at a minimum, also raising the hard-cut rev limit would be nice as well. I do not understand why you would have a hard cut at the peak of your powerband, I would think you would want it a little past it. I also think first gear in the car is useless, even in a factory car it is still way to short. I have read about people running the 3.6 ratio really liking the way the car performs on the highway, also making 1st gear usable.

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Originally Posted by Magma

^ what he said
I still get a boost cut at WOT above 6250, that can be bypassed with a simple resistor, but I like the safety factor

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I can see that being a good thing, especially with stock injectors, I have read that with the BEGI reflash you can change the size of injectors that can be used in the car, but they can only up the boost to 12 PSI for a $100, which does not seem to be that much over stock. There are also aftermarket EBCs that will alow you to up the boost, but I am not sure of the safety of these to stop over boost.

Max efficiency of the stock turbo (unmodified) is around 12psi, more than that and you are just heating the air. The resistor mod is easy to do, I have the resistors sitting on my tool box when I took them off to sell my car. On very cold mornings running just under 10.5 psi I would overboost to about 11psi. Rather than the car falling on it's face when I needed it, I put the resistor in. My car with stock ECU and injectors was ok running up to 11psi according to wideband, not all MSM will do that (you must verify with wideband). The old school FM MBC would allow a small amount of overboosting in very cold weather, the Hallman MBC I had installed was rock solid ($10 MBC vs. $80 MBC).

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Originally Posted by BigDmiata

Max efficiency of the stock turbo (unmodified) is around 12psi, more than that and you are just heating the air. The resistor mod is easy to do, I have the resistors sitting on my tool box when I took them off to sell my car. On very cold mornings running just under 10.5 psi I would overboost to about 11psi. Rather than the car falling on it's face when I needed it, I put the resistor in. My car with stock ECU and injectors was ok running up to 11psi according to wideband, not all MSM will do that (you must verify with wideband). The old school FM MBC would allow a small amount of overboosting in very cold weather, the Hallman MBC I had installed was rock solid ($10 MBC vs. $80 MBC).

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My next mod after I get the engine back with the forged internals will be a complete exhaust with turbo, and new turbo tubing, IC, and intake. The only thing I can not move away from is the factory ECU, but I can modify sensors, reflash, and other things to get my desired needs. At present time I only quest 200 RWHP, but that may change after a while as well. Thanks for the info.

OK, had the car fixed was running good for a stock MSM then the clutch slave cylinder went out during rush hour traffic. This would not have been that bad if I was on a clear highway, but stop and go traffic, not a lot of fun talking about the clutch pedal was soft all the way to the floor. Got that fixed, no issue, about 1.5 hours to replace and bleed the clutch system, why is their always on bolt that is hell.

Got the car back on the road for about a week, lost all oil presure, the new build was not even broke in yet, what the hell. Well the I called the mechanic shop that built the engine, he had no problem honoring the 2 year warranty he put on the engine, hell he even towed it to his shop for free. "https://www.facebook.com/pages/Running-Performance/291723137524543" He tore the engine down, he could not believe this pump failed in such a short time. Well hope to have the car back this week, sure hope my luck improves.

Shit I was thinking about a few go fast bits for the car, but if it keeps this up my wife it going to say the only thing that car is going to do is go for sale, fast.

I don't think that is going to happen, the car is fun as hell, even if it won't keep up with my kids grandpa "my dad" in his srt8 challenger.

Also I have been reading about the darn ecu in this car, what the hell can you do with this thing to get more torque and HP and still pass emissions. The only place that can reflash the thing is BEGI, I have to pass emissions, and I really don't want to swap the ECU and injectors every time I need an emissions test, darn obd2. What in the hell are my options, I have read mixed reviews on the BEGI reflash, the most concerning thing I saw was lean AFR at 12 PSI.

Help will be needed, would like a little more fun, don't think I would every be able to keep up with that srt8.

You only need to pass emissions once a year.

The problem is starting with a MSM in the first place. Granted it is the best looking NB but the mechanics are a nightmare. I'm not a MSM guru by any means but it seems they fight people every step of the way when if you want to modify them. Getting a non-OBDII car or even a 1999-2000 if you want to stay NB and boosting it will provide better results than trying to modify the MSM. ::2Cents::

Standalone ECU if you want to stick with your MSM, then swap back the oem ecu for inspection time.