Insurance company adjuster help...

So we get off the airport transfer bus after a cold holiday vacation, load the luggage into the car and fire up the low mileage 2008 Honda only to hear what sounds like a thousand angry ricers beating on on the car with ball peen hammers. If you have never experienced it, the catalytic converter was stolen via Sawz-all by someone obviously needing it much more than me.

Short anger management issues aside, no problem, I have OTC (other than collision) coverage. Call the local Honda dealer and the insurance company within minutes of each other thinking again, no problem, I have OTC, maybe I can have my car for the weekend. Rude tow truck driver aside, the car makes it to the dealership.

Five days later I get a call from the friendly Honda service adviser informing me that the insurance adjuster just ordered the car to be towed 30 miles away to a muffler shop to have an aftermarket universal catalytic converter welded into the gaping hole and the Honda adviser informed me that Honda would no longer warranty any future emissions recalls because the system would no longer have OEM parts. Never mind the fact that there are probably a million other muffler shops between here and Plano (read adjuster conflict of interest or kickback?).

Now thinking maybe problem, I have OTC, I give the claims office a call to find out what is up and was told that because the car is old, out of factory warranty (not if we were in California though) they did not have to use OEM parts and that aftermarket components are allowed per the coverage policy and that any future issues with the catalytic converter would be covered by the insurance company's "lifetime repair warranty". Never mind the fact the car is ULEV-2 certified and low mileage, they can cover what they feel is "reasonable". Or I can pay the $2000 difference to have OEM parts installed (don't call them stealerships for nothing).

Exploding with longer term anger management issues, I informed the insurance case worker not to send the car anywhere until I get hold of the State Insurance Board, the Insurance Agent, the FBI, EPA, BSA, ABC and AlAon to report this obvious violation of my hard earned and long-term-premium-paid-up-soon-to-be-cancelled-if-not-resolved-to-my-satisfaction insurance policy. They said fine, go ahead. We are in Texas and don't have to meet the ULEV-2 (CARB) requirements.

Anyone win one of these contests? From my research, there are NO aftermarket catalytic converters which will be compliant to the Honda requirements for ULEV-2 (read 50-state CARB approved) other than OEM parts which the insurance company refused to consider in the settlement. My threat to change insurance companies is pretty hollow since I looked at it before and am getting a pretty good rate (6 cars, home and life insurance discounts). I hate dealing with uninformed, non technical phone jockeys but don't know what other ammunition consumers have.

Anyone (you know who you are...) have any useful suggestions, short of caliber-defined ammunition?

Now all I can do is drive my Miata every day... silver lining...

Why not just go buy a used cat off an ulev Honda? Can't be that hard to find.

Isn't the federal emissions warranty 8 years or 80,000 miles on the :cat:

http://www.epa.gov/obd/pubs/420f09048.pdf

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What Are Specified Major Emission Control Components?
There are three specified major emission control components, covered for the first 8 years or
80,000 miles of vehicle use (whichever first occurs) on 1995 and newer vehicles:
• Catalytic converters
• The electronic emissions control unit or computer (ECU)
• The onboard emissions diagnostic device or computer (OBD)

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Pos is correct. Also, the ulev Honda uses a palladium-only cat, which explains the cost. Honda can only void the warranty if the replacement part is shown to be the cause of the problem you are seeking warranty repair on. Rasmussen Act or something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by OZMDD

Pos is correct.

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Yea for me! ::Banana::

Solution... straight pipes. Oh yea!!!

Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. They have to prove without a doubt that the aftermarket parts were the cause of the issue.

I'd fight it.

Honda is not my current issue. I am trying to get the insurance company to pony up for the right parts, not a universal, cobbled up exhaust with tacked on O2 ports (those got cut off with the cat) and welded on muffler (muffler flanges cut off by the thieves, not nicely unbolted like the factory provided). If I can't use the voided warranty or increased emissions (still need to call the EPA) I may have to use the "equivalent fit, form, and function" argument. Last resort would be to take their pittance and build it back up myself, negating the purpose of having insurance in the first place.

What airport?
Where did you park?

A quick search of catalytic converter sellers online revealed that you can get a 49 state unit that will bolt-in directly (if your flanges are still there) and only require some adjustment of O2 sensor cables. Not ideal, but affordable.

I think Rock Auto has a 50 state legal replacement for under $300.

Does you car have 80K miles or less?.........it seems to me if it does your insurance co would be obligated to restore it to OEM since it is still in warranty. If it is over 80k you are probably at their mercy......... You could work the angle of if the car turns on the MIL and its an emission issue the insurance co would be obligated for the repair since they specified a non OE part.

For what its worth I got a muffler shop special when my element donated its cat to the meth head copper mill. Came with a 2 year warranty and lasted every bit of 6 months before it threw a CEL. I drove it till the inspection was due and got it swapped under warranty. The guy told me I was the first one he's ever seen fail...riiiight...
The new unit did pass, however, and is still going strong.

I would be skeptical if the online bolt in units were anything more than the same cheapo innards with a pipe & flange on them, but who knows. I never found much faith on the online reviews on anything other than OEM units. From all my research, the price reflects pretty close to the amount of platinum or precious metals in the can and also reflects to the lifetime of the unit, which is pretty much what my experience turned out to be. My OEM was $1500, and I didn't want to donate any more to the meth heads so I went cheap.

No idea about insurance stuff since I didn't claim mine, but TL;DR: beware of the aftermarket units. I looks like you really get what you pay for with them.


Edit: love your description of the sound. I remember that brief few seconds of what the F before it clicked what happened. A particularly ditsy girl at work asked "how did you know they stole it? Do you always look under the car when you go home?" She was standing on the side the pipe ran so I just cranked it. I've never seen someone jump that high before, we all had a good laugh. I had a couple ricers rev, try to race, and cut me off on the long deafening drive home, lol.

Also if I remember correctly you have an Element as well right? The cops told me the Element and Toyota SUVs are at the top of the list for the sawzall methheads. The same day they got mine there was another element, and 2 toyotas hit within a mile of my office. They apparently have a more generous amount of precious metal than similar vehicles and are ridiculously easy to reach.

Yep, I know two other people with element/sawzall stories, which is probably 30% of all the element owners I personally know.

My neightbors 4 runner got hit over the summer at the grocery store, and a cousin in-law's pre runner last fall. Plus side to driving a low vehicle........

Maybe we've actually hit on a legit argument for going catless!

Yup. Element-al my dear Watson (couldn't resist the stupid pun). This is my second Element but first forced donation. The SC only has 38k miles so did not want to screw up the factory system with generic aftermarket stuff after reading about the finicky CEL. Yeah they cut the flanges so the muffler was affected. The dealership had another Element in the shop with its cat guts missing so there must be an organized team making rounds. I read that Chicago had a rash recently. The dirty deed was done in Grapevine at a Holiday Inn Express and yes I feel violated. Twice. Once with a sawzall and once with an adjuster. Not sure which feels worse.

No word from my soon-to-be-ex-agent.

Looks like there is a market for a Cat Blocker for certain vehicles. I'm imagining something akin to the FM Butterfly Brace that would make access to the cat more difficult and thus more of a deterrent.

Steve.........do you have an update on this for us?? Expiring minds want to know...........

It is one of those win some, lose some stories. I was able to get the adjuster's supervisor/trainer to admit the original adjuster did not know what he was writing up (it became a teaching moment for the inexperienced adjuster, at my expense). The generic welded in cheepie-converter magically transformed into a direct fit factory style with a 5-year warranty and OEM oxygen sensors. The damaged muffler would still be a welded kluge of factory stub and aftermarket adapters. The claims person would not even consider my demand for a new muffler with correct interface flanges and seals (it is a FLEX joint!)... I only felt a little unreasonable at that one. Anyway, the final settlement still did not cover half of the stealership estimate for factory replacement of all damage parts. They did gracefully agree to tow the car back to my house.

As of this morning I have ordered the factory OEM cat, muffler, seals, sensors, bolts, bells and whistles to be installed by a trusted mechanic (me) this weekend. The settlement value, my deductible, and hours of TCB web searching will more than likely net out the same as the settlement version installed by Midas. Of course I will now have the next drug-fix for the local crack head kindly awaiting his battery powered sawzall under my factory correct Element.

It is hard not to hate... but I am trying. I hope it was worth it to them.

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Originally Posted by mildensteve

It is hard not to hate... but I am trying. I hope it was worth it to them.

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I read they're worth about 50 bucks...to the guy that somehow figures out how to sell it to a recycler. To the sawzall operator, the value is probably closer to a couple of rocks. Hopefully this helps you hate the thievin bastards ::EvilBana

Good to see you'll get your toaster back to OEM emission spec. Rig a cattle prod up to it while you're under there.

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Originally Posted by Jiggerachi

I read they're worth about 50 bucks...to the guy that somehow figures out how to sell it to a recycler.

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I have sold cats to an online recycler before and it was crazy how easy it was:

1. I texted them photos (a Miata OEM cat and a pair of aftermarket cats that I sawzalled off my Tahoe when they went bad).
2. They then texted me back a quote (I think it was $100 for the oem Mazda cat and $10/ea for the aftermarket ones).
3. I excepted and texted him my email address.
4. He emailed me a prepaid UPS label.
5. I shipped the cats to him.
6. A few days after the cats got there, they sent me $120 via paypal.

Wow, I have a civic cat that was after market with the exhaust manifold in my garage. Where do I sell it?

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Originally Posted by Sharpie

Wow, I have a civic cat that was after market with the exhaust manifold in my garage. Where do I sell it?

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Aftermarket ones are only $10. I don't think they would even take them unless you bundled it with an OEM.