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Please join us for Equipe Rapide Challenge Cup #7 on August 16 at Lone Star Park. Online registration is open. You can get more information on the event and registration at our website. www.equiperapide.com
http://autocross.com/er/20150816_poster.jpg
Maybe, I have a some friends what want to give it a try for the first time.
looks like I get to make this event after all! Mini is at the dealer, trolling for codrives...
You are welcome to run with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
We now have live timing running. Go to the website on your mobile device and get results updated every minute.
erlive.autocross.com
Thank you Jeffrey Walker for letting us use your phone as a hot spot for the live timing. All this time I knew you were good for something I just hadn't figured out what.
Results:
http://autocross.com/er/2015results/cc15_7_final.htm
http://autocross.com/er/2015results/cc15_7_pax.htm
This is only my 2nd ER event of the year. But the work run order had me a bit perplexed. There seemed to be enough bodies for 3 separate heats. Why are we still running events like there are only 50 entrants?
This was something the PCA folks wanted to try out. I agree that traditional 3 or 4 heat plan is better for this many entries. It will be discussed at the next BOD meeting. Feel free to drop in and put in your $0.02 in favor of 3/4 heats.
Mike, I have an extremely busy work week. Any proxy votes available? Can I lobby my local ER rep? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
Put me down for the 3 heat format proxy vote. It would not affect me that much because I usually do setup, but I think it would be much easier on the course workers. Down side is that to would add a little time to the event with more course worker changes.
Three heats makes for a long work heat, especially in this heat. I rather liked the format on Sunday. Put me down for keeping the current format when there are enough participants.
Lol, proxy votes from the peanut gallery.
We are trying new things to limit the time we are out in the heat. By doing the split heat format you can give everyone some off time to cool down and get a bite to eat. This is very similar to the NTAXS or Pro-Solo format where a run group takes all their runs and then is done for a while. It also eliminates the need for a break.
As as far as work time goes, the workers ended up doing two 1 hour shifts instead of 1 two hour shift. This is much better in my opinion because they can get in the shade and rest for a while.
I meant that we would have 6 total heats as opposed to 4. Work, run, rest repeat. The work time would be shorter, but add a little time to the event for worker change.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrj512
I think that’s what ratt_finkel meant also.
Just giving honest feedback on what people are thinking. Me and ratt_finkel are not the only ones not crazy about the split heatsQuote:
Originally Posted by nomadtrash
Andy, except there isn't time to do any of that. We had 3 drivers in one car. It was rush rush rush the whole time. Work my ass off. And then go drive. Wipe the sweat off and do it again. And I heard from the other two driver cars that they too had no time to recover between running and working.Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadtrash
Is there a reason we can't vote on this?
The math is out there on how long it takes to run 50, 100, 150 and more entrants in a day. I'd argue that the traditional 3 heat format is similar in overall time to the 2 heat Ab, Ab format we have been running in some form for the past 6 years.
No, 6 heats is way too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert
Your feedback is always appreciated. ER is a corporation and actual voting on policy and procedure is limited to board members. We do allow non-board members to attend our meetings and make proposals and presentations. If you have an idea for the perfect run-work arrangement then I encourage you to attend a board meeting and submit your proposal. Board meetings are on the Tuesday prior to each event usually at Marshall's BBQ on Rosemeade in Carrollton or at Alfredo's in Lewisville. You can email me for more details on the time and location if you would like to attend.
I definitely don't want to downplay your legitimate critique of the event operation. We do want to make our events the best experience possible. I only LOL'd because we have a dedicated group of board members that spend countless hours making every event happen and we won't undermine their hard work by pandering to a few off the cuff "If I were in charge" remarks on the internet.
So in conclusion, If you want something specific then bring a specific proposal to the board to be discussed.
Thanks,
I'd also add that 3 driver cars aren't even allowed at most clubs in a single heat. Sometimes those folks just need to run in a different class. We accommodate it whenever possible, but its not a guarantee. Trying new things is the best way we know to evolve our events to work for the largest number of attendees. We are happy to have our current challenge of providing 6+ runs at every event, even when attendance is consistently above 90 drivers, often well into the 120's.
We are not done tweaking, and ideas are always welcomed.
The math doesn't make any sense on this.
If you have 100 drivers. You can split them up in 4 x 25 in two heats as we did Sunday. You run 3 runs in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. So you work twice. At 20 second intervals between cars you come up with 50 minutes each session or 100 minutes in total. That doesn't include the extra time between heat A1 and Heat A2 switch.
With 3 heats you run 33 cars with 6 runs. Using the same 20 second intervals you work 67 minutes.
So the choice is work twice at 50 plus a little twice or put in just another 17 minutes and be done for the day.
Since I'm on the setup crew where we work from 6:30 to 9:00 I'm not worried about which heat system to use. However the math says 3 heats is way better.
When this new format was announced a couple of events ago it was sold as less time on grid. Which it does do. Instead of sitting in grid for 67 minutes you are out in 30. Not sure why we want to save time in grid. Most people enjoy the time in grid. It gives them time to adjust on their cars. Cool down the engine and tires. Talk to other drivers to get tips. Plus you are trying to turn everyone into X drivers by making us drive in 3 run intervals. It takes me longer to get a feel for the course. I need time to evaluate my runs on my logger before I go out again. If it's a heat issue. You always have the choice of rolling up your windows and turning on the air. The guys spending twice as much time out in the sun fetching cones don't have that option.
Someone told me there would be free funnel cakes at every event!!! Where are they?!?!?!
The setup crew eats them all before anyone else shows up. Why do you think it takes us 3 hours to set-up. We are busy eating Funnel Cakes. It can't possibly take 3 hours to throw a bunch of cones out in a parking lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammm
Ouch, ouch, ouch!!! All these peanuts are hitting me in the head. Where is my helmet.
http://www.careercapitalist.com/.a/6...9339970c-250wiQuote:
Originally Posted by BatoLoco13
I'm sorry for expressing my opinion and again trying to bring math and logic into the situation. I should know better. I will now return to my cave and shut the fudge up! Sorry for the interruption!Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadtrash
If it were only as simple as you want to make it Jeffery, we wouldn't have any trouble making everyone happy.
Here are some of the considerations to balance:
-drivers want 6-8+ runs
-drivers want to finish by mid afternoon
-drivers want a break to eat/rest/socialize
-Drivers want the gravel blown off several times per event
-workers want as short an assignment as possible
-safety dictates car spacing
-drivers want longer, interesting courses
-drivers want competition to be as fair and equal as possible (pax, conditions, etc)
-novices want instruction, walk throughs, time to watch and learn
-Some drivers need lots of adjustment And cool down time
-Timing and scoring must accurately record all the runs, cones, dnf's, break downs, false trips, reruns, etc.
- heat balancing, run/work order, multi driver cars, novices, etc are all affected by walk up registration, which ER is committed to keeping as an option for drivers, as well as no attendance cap.
These are just a few of the things that go into the process. As you can see, many of them can conflict with one another. So, new ideas are welcome, but not always feasible. Board meetings are short and fun, come out with your ideas.
OZMDD, you don't have to make everyone happy, just me ;)
It's not a big deal to me either way. Do what ever makes the course workers happiest.
We are actually trying to make everyone happy except Robert. It is working pretty well so far.
If that were true. Robert would be the only one complaining ... He's not!Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadtrash
But in all seriousness. I understand what you guys are trying to do (Mike, Andy etc.). And please don't think for a minute that all your work and the masters of the ER program isn't appreciated. It is very highly appreciated.
I realize you can't please all the people. In those situations you have to find the most balanced approach. In simple terms with the 3 heat system you spend 1/3rd of your time working, 1/3rd in grid & 1/3rd resting. With the current system you are working half the time, in grid 1/4th of the time & 1/4th resting. Your making people work longer by taking away rest time and grid time.
I also understand that this current system works in NTXAS and worked in PCA. But those are/were completely different beasts. Those groups you have/had mostly hardcore experienced entrance and limited to a smaller group. Made/makes for a much smoother faster running event. ER has grown too large and transient. And that is a good thing. More people, more competition, more friends to make fun off. Hopefully we can find a balanced system that keeps all these new folks and the old guard around for the long term.
Thank you for the professional and thorough/thoughtful response. I have no desire to be in charge. But I always want to see the club flourish. And as you mentioned, be able to enjoy the experience to the fullest. I just find it interesting that after all these years. Our local clubs still seem to struggle with event operations.Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadtrash
Mike. Donna ran SSPL. Keath and I both ran in X. She was in 1a, we were in 1b. I would have happily run in another class had I known upfront how the day was going to play out. Again, thank you for your openness.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
I might have to make it out to more events if this becomes a reality! Powdered sugar is a must though!Quote:
Originally Posted by sammm
It appears to me that we are trying to please too much of the masses. Event safety and operation should trump everything. Again, these are protocols that should have been established decades ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by OZMDD
The protocols are in place, but they also change depending on the event structure. I personally think the event operations are quite good at SCCA, ER and NTAXS. Bear in mind that last week's event had almost 100 drivers, 6 runs, and was done before 3 pm.
SCCA has had 150 driver events this year w/5 runs each that were wrapped by 5 pm. NTAXS has 67 drivers at every event getting 8 runs and a lunch bvreak, most of which are also wrapped by 3-4 pm.
I've gone to events in other cities that give you less for more $$ and time. As with any all-volunteer organization, the faces rotate constantly, so there is a lot of teaching/learning that must occur every week.