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Don't have the issue in front of me at the moment, but the Solstice beats the NC in this month's (Oct) Car & Driver. They like it better "subjectively" :shock: but say that things may change once they conduct instrumented testing on both.
Also, the NC's performance numbers come within a hair's breadth, and sometimes trump, the MSM. Looks like a winner, but I wonder how this whole Solstice issue will sort out. :scratch:
S.
I can't say that I like the NC, but I can say that I C/D needs to look at itself seriously after that article. First they say the Solstice wins after the NC beats it in all performance categories, and say that the Solstice is better because it is heavier ?????
This is after they state that the NC is extremely stable on one page and then say it is delicate and never settles down on the next. They really should have thought twice about publishing that article at this point in each cars introduction.
Im leary of the 0-60 times as R/T and others have tested it right at 7 sec 0-60. Unless they have a ringer 6.5 is pretty damn hard to get with a car weighing 2448 as it was published and a 170HP engine.
Car & Who? What a rag. I won't worry until AutoWeek or some worthwhile magazine does a proper comparo. But, of course, we already know what the verdict will be:
How's that for pre-judging the results? :lol:
- Third Place: the Sky will be the "aggressive styling for the kids" winner, but it won't feel as solid as the Solstice, and will drive/ride more harshly.
- Second Place: the Solstice will be the "comfortable daily driver / boulevard cruiser" winner. A perfect place to enjoy your latte while shopping at Tiffany's.
- First Place: the MX5 will be the performance winner, but the editors will lament the fact that while the NC is more "user friendly", the Miata/MX5 has lost some of its edge.
I believe Pontiac calls this "road hugging weight". :drive:Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxmr2eater
S.
I know this to be true, the more weight the better it handles! :clown:Quote:
Originally Posted by srivendel
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...85_27_full.jpg
Based on options packaging between the NC & Solstice, it appears that GM is going after the enthusiast more than Mazda - the NC seems to be aimed squarely at the "wine & cheese" crowd, imho. You can order a Solstice with the Torsen, the Bilstein shock/suspension Package, and nothing else (including a/c). Unfortunately, Mazda has chosen to force buyers to take all the superfluous crap in order to get the worthwhile factory performance-enhancing options.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel
I'm starting to think the Solstice might turn out to be the more sporting of the two. Never count out a 2800-lb car with moderate torque and factory wheels wide enough to fit some serious rubber (cough, cough... RX-8 :wink: ).
BTW, the weight difference between the Solstice and the NC is less than the weight difference between the NC and the NB... and the Solstice offers a much larger increase in torque for the additional weight. :mrgreen:
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Originally Posted by altiain
:scratch: The 2001 NB in LS trim is 2387Lbs curb weight. The NC in GT trim is 2690 with a 180 Lb driver putting it at 2510 curb weight. The Solstice is 3068 with a 180 Lb driver so 2888 curb weight. While still a porker the NC is only 123 pounds more in test trim. The pleasantly plump Solstice is the mere 501 pounds heavier in test trim.
Not once in the Solstice review was nimble ever used as a descriptor.
:nutkick:Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
Plus, with the Pontiac, you get the warm'n'fuzzy feeling that comes with buying American. (And some of us even get the Employee Discount ;) ) It'll be interesting to see how things shake down. I'm happy with my MSM for a long time. When it comes time to replace it, I figure the NC MSM will be out (or maybe the ND :shock: ) so I'll see how the market looks then.
That said, if my car were stolen tomorrow and I were left shopping for a new one, the NC wouldn't be an automatic choice.
S.
That was my feeling till I saw this photoshop. It has me thinking that I need to work hard to get the Murano paid off quickly so I am ready for another car payment if and when it becomes available.Quote:
Originally Posted by srivendel
Whoops - my apologies. I thought the Solstice was closer to 2800 than 2900lbs empty.Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxmr2eater
Still, you're starting with the biggest, heaviest NB for comparison purposes. The '99 NB, optioned correctly (and with all of the Sport Package goodies, including the Torson),weighed just a bit over 2200 pounds in factory trim, substantially less than the porker '01 LS.
I'm still starting to think that the torque and tire advantage of the Solstice ( combined with the wheel size and gearing disadvantages of the NC) are going to make the Solstice a better autocrosser. If my Sport got totalled tomorrow, I'd either go looking for another '99 Sport, a Laguna Blue '95 R Package to terrorize E Stock with... or seriously contemplate spending money at a GM dealership for the first time in my life.
I'm sure Wine & Cheese is a big segment for Mazda, but what about us cone smacking punks! We need love also! :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
May have to go look at the P-Back! :twisted:
Watch it, little-car man. :evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
http://www.austinpowers.com/objects/...ardwrestle.jpg
S.
Your definition of substatialy must be different than mine! :flower:Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
Do you rememer the following from a past SCCA test & tune!
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Originally Posted by POS Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
2299 from published data for the 99 with the sport trim and LSD.
My point is a car magazine calling the heavier, slower, less agile car a better car. I am not a fan of the NC. The front end and the fru fru junk dont do it for me. The same can be said of the Solstice. Its much more a cruiser than a sports car. Im thinking that a 05 MSM or base model is a better buy than either of the newcomers. :?
Yes, I do. Do you recall that mine has a/c, a hitch, and 55-lbs of roll bar? That General Default's has a/c, power steering, and a hitch?Quote:
Originally Posted by POS Racing
We never got to weigh John Baker's car - no a/c, no p/s, no hitch. That would have been as light a '99 Sport as you could have ordered from the factory.
wrxmr2eater, that published number is, again, for a '99 Sport with both a/c and power steering - about 70-80 pounds of weight that you could order a '99 from the factory without. I stand by my previous statement, that you could option a '99 Sport from the factory with everything you'd need for autocrossing that would weigh just a bit over 2200 pounds.
Say it isn't so!Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
By the way, Road & Track just did their October write up and came up with just the opposite opinion... they put the NC as the better of the two.
here is the article
Well then, someone needs to buy an NC and then we can "borrow" my mother's Solstice when it comes in later this month (hopefully) and take'em to the Ranch or an autox and have our own little test! :burnrubr:
Someone mentioned that the Solstice seems more geared toward racers based on the option packages, but there is one huge flaw GM made in the Solstice being a sports car...I see no possible way to install a functional SCCA approved roll bar in it without removing the top and hacking up the tonneu cover. So all of us gear heads that love to track our cars would be screwed if we bought a Solstice.
My friend in Detroit got to drive a Solstice and was very impressed with the quality, ride and performance. Although GM has made a huge improvement in quality, especially interior, I don't see it being as nice as a Mazda.
*R&T and CD suck at testing cars! :nutkick: When one of them test a car and get an 11 mph difference in 1/4 mile runs then something is not right! or when they test a bunch of tuner supercars and run a 13.8 (or 13.6) 1/4 mile time in an 800hp twinturbo Viper!
Same potential problem with the NC. The new top designs are going to make packaging a real roll bar without losing the soft top extremely difficult.Quote:
Originally Posted by icepenguin66
I thought the Mazda NC club sport race car show car had rear braces that could work with the soft top? At least there looks to me some space to work with on the NC, where as the Solstice has none!Quote:
Originally Posted by altiain
Titus started a post on Rollbar thoughts for the NC and the Solstice . :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by icepenguin66
Good points all, except that I just woke up with a bump on my head from where I fainted and fell to the floor after reading that altiain is even contemplating the possibility that he'd purchase a Solstice... :shaking: :lol:
Seriously, I think GM has closed the gap considerably, and seem to have winners on their hands with the Solstice and Sky. And they'll sell more of them, simply because they'll produce more and push them through their system. But in reading that Car & Driver article, I couldn't help thinking most of the "Advantage: Solstice" items will be easy to fix on the NC. You know the aftermarket folks will give us stiffer springs and shocks to sort out the softer ride. Wider wheels and rubber will be available to improve grip. Aftermarket exhausts will give the engine more of a growl.
On the other hand, things like interior fit-n-finish, and top operation are much harder to "fix" for the Solstice. I think when all is said and done -- and folks like us tweak the NC a little -- the NC will be a much clearer winner.
Still, I agree with altiain that [based on options and their packaging] Mazda seems to have catered more to the "wine-n-cheesers" than us "cone-n-coursers". We shouldn't have to "tweak" an MX5 to make it a great little sports car (I'd call the stuff we do to our NA's and NB's slight enhancements and personalizations, more than needed tweaks). That's very dissappointing considering Mazda's racing heritage and their "Zoom-Zoom" advertising.
But we are just going to have to wait and see. I still believe the NC will be the better car of the three, but now Mazda will have some real competition... at that's a very good thing!
I'd hold mine tounge til the Solstice comes out. I am thoroughly impressed with the imporvements in interior quality and build quality of GM vehicles in the past 2 years. The NC may still have better build/interior quality but I don't think it will be so much better that it is more than a trivial factor for the ultra anal obessives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel
I wouldn't be so down on the NC yet, till we get it on the track for real. The base suspension model I drove felt quite stiff and nice IMO. I actually think it may be too stiff for mainstream target buyers like my mother.Quote:
Still, I agree with altiain that [based on options and their packaging] Mazda seems to have catered more to the "wine-n-cheesers" than us "cone-n-coursers". We shouldn't have to "tweak" an MX5 to make it a great little sports car (I'd call the stuff we do to our NA's and NB's slight enhancements and personalizations, more than needed tweaks). That's very dissappointing considering Mazda's racing heritage and their "Zoom-Zoom" advertising.