Another RUDE 92 shock question

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11-29-2005, 07:21 AM
rudedog

Another RUDE 92 shock question

OK, my 92 has the original shocks. Yes, I know, but I've only had it two years and that's what I got and money was tight.
I want to replace the shocks very soon and there are four questions.

1. What to get for street driving and maybe a couple of autocrosses next year. AGX's?

2. Buy from one of the vendors such as Moss or Tittusville or buy a set off of e-bay that seem to be cheaper. Hopefully only in price. Are these legit and does anyone have any experience with these vendors.

3. Pay $70.00 per shock to have them installed or if I did a tech day would I get the know how and help to do the job.

4. Anything else a 92 would need instead of getting in there and then finding out? :confused:

Thanks group.
11-29-2005, 08:14 AM
Titus

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudedog

1. What to get for street driving and maybe a couple of autocrosses next year. AGX's?

I have the AGXs on my 92 and I love them, but I have them paired with FM springs. I have heard that the AGXs are not very good with the stock springs. The pointy board tends to recommend the Konis if you are sticking with the stock springs, but they are a little more expensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudedog

2. Buy from one of the vendors such as Moss or Tittusville or buy a set off of e-bay that seem to be cheaper. Hopefully only in price. Are these legit and does anyone have any experience with these vendors.

As far as where to buy, it may be difficult to cash in on the lifetime warranty if you buy via EBay. I have heard that any AGX dealer can swap you out, but I also hear many won't unless you bought through them. With that said, I have about 25k miles on mine so far with no problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudedog

3. Pay $70.00 per shock to have them installed or if I did a tech day would I get the know how and help to do the job.

I am sure that we could get some people together for a tech day if you are patient. If you are one of those guys that wants them installed the weekend you get them, you may be better off paying someone to do it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudedog

4. Anything else a 92 would need instead of getting in there and then finding out? :confused:

You will want new shock boots... the OEM ones are definitely worth the extra money as they have a built in bump stop that acts as part of the suspension.

If you want to go all out and get springs and shocks, you should consider adding the Flyin Miata rear shock mounts. You are looking at about $850 to get springs, shocks and mounts via FM. Once you've gone this far, you will start thinking about adding sways for another $200.... it never really ends. :rolleyes:
11-29-2005, 08:19 AM
Screamin'Screw

AGXs seem to be a good, popular choice. Are you going with a different spring? This would be the time.

You can do it yourself at a tech day. Not really a difficult job with the right tools and an experienced helper.

You will be surprised at the difference - whole new car.
11-29-2005, 08:39 AM
POS Racing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titus

I have the AGXs on my 92 and I love them, but I have them paired with FM springs. I have heard that the AGXs are not very good with the stock springs. The pointy board tends to recommend the Konis if you are sticking with the stock springs, but they are a little more expensive.

You can't believe everything you read on the Pointy board Titus, I had the AGX's on stock springs on my '92 for a couple of years they worked great!

rudedog when you get the shocks just go ahead and get new OEM shock boots, that way you get new bump stops as well as new non crunchy boots.

Always up for a tech rudedog, just let us know! ::Afro::
11-29-2005, 08:43 AM
Titus

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Racing

You can't believe everything you read on the Pointy board Titus, I had the AGX's on stock springs on my '92 for a couple of years they worked great!

Which is why I was sure to point out that it was the pointy board's opinion... I figured it would save him some time in case someone like you or Sammm got pointy and suggested that there was a lot of good info that could be found with the search function on the Pointy board. ::Clown::
11-29-2005, 11:01 AM
rudedog

Thanks so far.

OK, I'll get the boots as recommended and wiat for the right time to install.
Would any of you recommend this set up I see on the Miata.net for $575.00?

Brand new Koni Sport suspension kit for 90-97 M1 Miata. Includes Koni Yellow Sport Shocks (adjustable damping with 3 height settings) and matched Koni springs. Decided to go a different direction with suspension. My mistake is your gain!
11-29-2005, 11:26 AM
Titus

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudedog

OK, I'll get the boots as recommended and wiat for the right time to install.
Would any of you recommend this set up I see on the Miata.net for $575.00?

Brand new Koni Sport suspension kit for 90-97 M1 Miata. Includes Koni Yellow Sport Shocks (adjustable damping with 3 height settings) and matched Koni springs. Decided to go a different direction with suspension. My mistake is your gain!

I don't know much about the Koni springs, but I liked the ride in the one car with koni shocks that I road in. You are welcome to take a spin in my car some time if you want to see what the FM/AGX combo feels like in a 92. I also have the FM sway bars, but FM it is only $600 without the sways. The shock mounts I mentioned early are on my wish list, but are not a necessity.
11-30-2005, 06:31 PM
icepenguin66

You can get a set of the AGX shocks on Ebay for $300! That's where I got mine. I personally do not recommend the Flyin Miata springs for the M1. I had 2 sets sag in one year so I got a refund and went with the Ground Control kit and could never be happier.::2Cents::
11-30-2005, 06:37 PM
rudedog

Thanks

Hey Icepenguin66 I see you live in Sachse. That's where my 65 Vette is being restored but that's another story. Five and a half years now and my buddy and I are not through yet.::Censor::
11-30-2005, 06:42 PM
icepenguin66

Cool, who's doing it? My father and I are almost done restoring a 71 Camaro RS. Steve Webb is going to paint it...a friend of ours.
11-30-2005, 06:59 PM
rudedog

Us

My long time friend Albert Payton who lives on Anthony Lane and had 5,500 square feet of concrete poured for his workshop about six months before we started.
We both work at Raytheon and my 17 year old daughter plays select soccer, I'm the manager, and I take motorcycle trips way too often on my Triumph. No I don't :-) Plus the Miata I bought two and a half years ago.
I've got the suspension, frame, steering box, etc. completed. Down to the glass and now five primers later we're ready for paint but we wnat to put the motor in first.
I have it disasembled in my garage here in The Colony and am looking for someone to build it up after machine work. Know anyone?
11-30-2005, 09:36 PM
altiain

Another happy KYB user here. I've had a set of Konis, two sets of OEM Sport Package Bilsteins, and the AGXs on the car. Out of all of the above, I prefer the AGXs, and imho they work fine with the OEM springs. FWIW, the fastest local autocross Miatas all have AGXs.

I'm kind of lukewarm on Koni. I've had three sets of Konis on three different cars ('98 Prelude, '93 RX-7, '99 Miata), and on two of those sets I've had a blown shock within 10k miles. Granted, Koni has excellent customer service (they'll ship you a replacement shock at no charge up front, then give you 90 days to return the defective one), but I firmly believe that the AGXs offer just as good a product for 99% of people at a much lower price.

BTW, most of the people on the :batman: board who recommend one brand of shock over another usually have only tried that one brand. I haven't, and I'd recommend the KYBs, even after running Konis on this car and the prevous two autocross cars I've owned. :wink:
11-30-2005, 10:18 PM
tailchaser

Tres happy with the KYB's here - with either stock or FM springs. On my '02, the ride quality improved dramatically on the street with the KYB's - and the upgrade to FM's improved it again.
11-30-2005, 11:46 PM
Treibenschnell

Happy here as well...
12-01-2005, 07:52 AM
Miatamoto

Yet another KYB/stock spring junkie. It's worked great, and I've had zero complaints with them for the past season.
12-03-2005, 03:14 AM
icepenguin66

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailchaser

Tres happy with the KYB's here - with either stock or FM springs. On my '02, the ride quality improved dramatically on the street with the KYB's - and the upgrade to FM's improved it again.

Why the hell is everyone else so happy with FM springs yet I had 2 sets of them and they both sagged to 11" ride height within 5 months?! As I keep saying, "my car is cursed!" Maybe I should have it blessed!::Angel::

Rude Dog,
Keith Kraft in Plano on the NW corner of 75 and 15th street is a good place, but not if you're on a tight budget. I know plenty of hotrodders so I could ask a few and get back to ya. I'll have to some check out your project and the Miata sometime. We have everything done except for the paint...of course we took off all the body panels etc for the prep. We had a nice 383 built by Kim Barr Racing Engines, but I would not recommend him. Our motor is fine, but more than one friend has had bad experience with him.
12-03-2005, 03:30 AM
icepenguin66

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudedog

3. Pay $70.00 per shock to have them installed or if I did a tech day would I get the know how and help to do the job.

4. Anything else a 92 would need instead of getting in there and then finding out? :confused:

Thanks group.

Ah I read over these...

I've changed shocks or had to replace them so many times now that I can do all 4 in probably 2 hoursfso long as nothing goes wrong (like the shock hat stud being crossthreaded somehow and breaking off) ::BigWhack I'd be glad to help if I'm not working on said day.

I would recommend getting replacement upper ball joint boots for the front. Since you have a 92 I'm positive they are old and worn, or when you pop the ball joint to get the shock out it will more than likely get torn by the ball joint fork. Since you're gonna be under there, see if the tie rod balljoint boots need replacing also. Speaking of, I just did this a few hours ago!

Also may want to check out the rear alignment bolts and see if they are extreamly rusted. Last time I got an alignment the guy (a trustworthy guy) said mine were badly rusted and made it very difficult for him to get close to my alignment specs. So I have new ones that I'm gonna install before my needed alignment real soon.
12-09-2005, 10:00 AM
rudedog

Here's what I got and I need help whenever

Here is what I bought and they were delivered yesterday and look good.
(4) KYB-AGX 8 way adjustable shocks with OEM springs. Two Front (#741015) and two Rear (#741016) complete assemblies with Strut Mounts, caps, boots, etc. These 4 assemblies are 100% complete and are all ready to bolt in car.

Now the questions:
1. One reply said that I needed to get upper ball joing boots. OEM prefered?

2. Do I need any special tools that I need to rent or purchase?

3. Mixed feedback on stock vs. FM springs. Right now I think the stocks will stay. 99% road driving and maybe a couple of AX next year. Any negative feedback on my choice?

4. Tech day:
a. Can I get some help at what ever date works for anyone who will help. I'm having rotator cuff surgery next Friday so I suppose I'm looking at a date after that.
b. Location, My house in The Colony, your house, where my Vette is in Sachse. The advantage of this location is plenty of room (3,500 SF) all enclosed.

::Angel::
12-09-2005, 10:43 AM
POS Racing

Just let us know what works for you after your surgery! I'm sure we could come up with a few folks to help ya!

As far as the ball joint joint, on an NA I've done the San Diego club method a few times, which doesn't require you to break loose the upper ball joint, but YYMV!
12-09-2005, 11:09 AM
Miatamoto

Rent a strut style spring compressor from Autozone.

Put the compressor on the spring while everything is still on the car and compress everything to the point where you can pull everything out without disconnecting any suspension arms.

It works, that's how I got my AGXs in.
12-09-2005, 06:44 PM
icepenguin66

Rudedog pm sent. I live in Sachse but get around the metroplex a lot with refing hockey so anywhere near Dallas is good for me! I recommended getting some balljoint/tierod boots cause they are probably old and worn or will get torn when you install the shocks. If Mazda has to order them (like Town North) then you can get by with some universal ones from Napa if they are bad.

I've never heard anything bad about stock springs with AGX shocks, and when you do autoX the AGX can be set stiff enough. I personally have not had good experience with the FM springs (great FM customer service though as always). just my ::2Cents::

I have a spring compressor if needed, but if the shocks you bought already have the springs you are going to use assembled then you don't need it. Just pop the upper balljoint and pull it out. This will not affect your alignment either...or so I've been told.

*My house in Sachse is open...would love to check out your vette afterwards! hint hint! :wink:
12-09-2005, 06:46 PM
rudedog

Thanks

Thanks man, I'll remember that stuff.
12-09-2005, 07:02 PM
altiain

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Racing

Just let us know what works for you after your surgery! I'm sure we could come up with a few folks to help ya!

Amen! Make it sometime after Christmas to avoid the holiday craziness, and I'll be happy to help!

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Racing

As far as the ball joint joint, on an NA I've done the San Diego club method a few times, which doesn't require you to break loose the upper ball joint, but YYMV!

Isn't this what we did on jigger's car? That was a royal pain in the ass to reassemble, imho.

Personally, I prefer the Andy Hollis method as detailed at the bottom of the link. This is what we did on Tim the Teacher's car, and it's so much easier to reassemble.
12-09-2005, 07:50 PM
icepenguin66

Hmm....I basically do the San Diego method. I have a huge 5ft pole I use. Or a good foot can work. I'll have to go take a look under the car next time cause just by reading the Andy Hollis method, it seems to be more of a hassle IMO.
12-09-2005, 09:12 PM
sammm

Quote:

Originally Posted by altiain

Isn't this what we did on jigger's car? That was a royal pain in the ass to reassemble, imho.

Since rudedog bought complete ready-to-install assemblies (springs/shocks/tops/etc) is there a need to go thru all of that? I'm game to help too after the holidays BTW.
12-10-2005, 05:37 AM
icepenguin66

Quote:

Originally Posted by altiain

Isn't this what we did on jigger's car? That was a royal pain in the ass to reassemble, imho.

Oh yeah, I pop the upper balljoint loose instead of taking the lower one off. Either way shouldn't be a pain to reassemble IMO.

I have plenty of free time before the holidays if you're itching to get your new stuff on. Should only take 2 hours...maybe less since you don't have to assemble the springs/shocks.
12-10-2005, 10:44 AM
altiain

Quote:

Originally Posted by icepenguin66

Oh yeah, I pop the upper balljoint loose instead of taking the lower one off. Either way shouldn't be a pain to reassemble IMO.

I have plenty of free time before the holidays if you're itching to get your new stuff on. Should only take 2 hours...maybe less since you don't have to assemble the springs/shocks.

My experience with Mazda ball joints is that it is very easy to tear the boots without using the SST (special service tool). A standard ball joint fork won't work with the Miata's upper ball joints.

I found this out the hard way the first time I replaced the shocks on my own car, since coming from HOndas where popping the ball joints was the easy way to do it. Then again, if rudedog is going to replace the ball joint boots anyway, I guess it doesn't matter.
12-10-2005, 11:26 AM
BAM!

if this hasnt been done yet, id offer my services. are air tools going to be available? itll make the whole process much faster. i did my first install in about 2 hours. ::Flag::
also does anyone have a pic of the upper ball joint? i didnt replce mine hbut dont seem to suffer any consequences.
oh yeah, since i dont have much $$ to spend, i also dont have shock boot, alot of people dont....
12-10-2005, 07:56 PM
icepenguin66

Yeah, I would assume his balljoint and tierod boots are worn being a 92. The ones on my 90 and 92 were looked pretty worn when I got them. And of course, like you said if you pop the balljoint then the boot will get torn.

You can get some universal shock boots at any autoparts store or try one of the off-road stores, they may have more in stock. Can get some for around $7 each, like the rancho shock boots.
12-11-2005, 01:59 AM
sammm

Quote:

Originally Posted by icepenguin66

You can get some universal shock boots at any autoparts store or try one of the off-road stores, they may have more in stock. Can get some for around $7 each, like the rancho shock boots.

Not a good idea...the bumpstops on the NA's are integrated into the boot. I'd spring for new OEM boots (and I did when I put the AGX's on my '92).
12-11-2005, 10:00 AM
Miatamoto

Everybody keeps talking about popping out ball joints! You don't have to do any of that. :confused:
12-11-2005, 10:45 AM
POS Racing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miatamoto

Everybody keeps talking about popping out ball joints! You don't have to do any of that. :confused:

Hey don't lump me it with that ball joint bashing crowd! ::Clown::
12-11-2005, 06:33 PM
icepenguin66

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammm

Not a good idea...the bumpstops on the NA's are integrated into the boot. I'd spring for new OEM boots (and I did when I put the AGX's on my '92).

umm...yeah, I wasn't talking about ditching the bumpstops. I have AGX with GC and FM rear mounts so I was thinking a bit different. The bumpstops should be good (unless they are original on a car w/217k miles like mine!). The boots wear out faster but the the bumpstop could still be good anyway.

If you are gonna get new bumpstops/boots, isn't it better to get the ones for the 1.8 NA cars? That's what I was told by everyone on the :batman: board. Something about them being progressive rate...I can't remember, I replace mine a couple years ago.
12-11-2005, 06:44 PM
Majik

Quote:

Originally Posted by icepenguin66

If you are gonna get new bumpstops/boots,

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudedog

Here is what I bought and they were delivered yesterday and look good.
(4) KYB-AGX 8 way adjustable shocks with OEM springs. Two Front (#741015) and two Rear (#741016) complete assemblies with Strut Mounts, caps, boots, etc. These 4 assemblies are 100% complete and are all ready to bolt in car.

...
12-12-2005, 12:39 AM
icepenguin66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Majik

...

I didn't bring up the shock boots, someone else did. I brought up the balljoint/tierod boots since they tend to rot and crack after 15 years.

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