Engine rebuild

Well, it would appear that I'm going to be in need of a new motor sometime in the near future. I went up to visit Stevan Boyd at Miata Solutions last weekend, and he confirmed my fear - the noise I've been hearing for the last few hundred miles is internal, and it's coming from the bottom end. Looks like I need a rebuild. :(

Unfortunately, an engine rebuild is beyond the scope of what Stevan wants to take on. I don't have the space, tools, or time to take this project on myself, so I'm looking for recomendations on someone to rebuild my motor. Nothing fancy, just an OEM rebuild. But the kicker is, I need to have the car back no later than mid-March.

Any suggestions?

No sugestions.... but what do you need just a short block??

You know if you need any help there would be several of us available to help you out!

wow...that sucks. What was the noise and how many miles are on the car?

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

No sugestions.... but what do you need just a short block??

You know if you need any help there would be several of us available to help you out!

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I appreciate that, POS. I *might* go the used short block route and just swap heads, but I like this motor, dammit. It's been good to me, and it makes good power. I'd be very disappointed to swap a junkyard block in and lose 10-15whp.

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Originally Posted by jolberry

wow...that sucks. What was the noise and how many miles are on the car?

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The noise is hard to describe. It's an rpm-dependent ticking/knocking/klacking sound that is prevalent above 3k rpm. It's not particularly loud, but you can hear it over the engine when the radio is off. This motor has ~95k on it.

I don't fault the motor at all. It's had four years of severe abuse at my hands. I just want to find a way to have it running again by mid-March, so I can break it in and get the car sorted before the Walnut Ridge Tour.

Couldn't ya just get a rebuilt short block and reuse the head??

Have you ask Gary @ Trackdog I recall hearing that he replaced the engine in his NB. ;)

Wow! Sorry to hear about the motor, at least it's the off season. Hope everything goes well.

You may want to give Don Marvel at MarvelSpeed a call. He is the best Mazda tech around here. He used to be, until a couple months ago, the Master Tech at Town North. He now only work out from his shop at Rowlett. His no. is 972-475-6448. He works on all my cars. A couple of the SCCA guys use him too. He may even able to build you a "race ready" engine!

Bummer! Hope things work out for you. If we can help, just ask.

Check with Gary Shuhart.

I hear he has some experience with having motors rebuilt. ;)

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Originally Posted by black roadster

Check with Gary Shuhart.

I hear he has some experience with having motors rebuilt. ;)

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Ya don't say?! ::Clown:: ;)

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Originally Posted by Treibenschnell

Ya don't say?! ::Clown:: ;)

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Uhhhh..... I suppose I should read the whole thread before replying, huh?::Clown::

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Originally Posted by black roadster

Uhhhh..... I suppose I should read the whole thread before replying, huh?::Clown::

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Never stopped you before! ::Bleh::

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Never stopped you before! ::Bleh::

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::stfu::

That sucks, but it too can be fixed. I agree crack yours open and see what can be done, always a gamble with a junk yard motor too. Good luck. Oh yeah, do what BR and Bean said, call Trackdogracing and talk to some guy named Gary.;)

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Originally Posted by black roadster

Uhhhh..... I suppose I should read the whole thread before replying, huh?::Clown::

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::Bus:: ::Bleh::

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Originally Posted by altiain

The noise is hard to describe. It's an rpm-dependent ticking/knocking/klacking sound that is prevalent above 3k rpm. It's not particularly loud, but you can hear it over the engine when the radio is off. This motor has ~95k on it.

I don't fault the motor at all. It's had four years of severe abuse at my hands. I just want to find a way to have it running again by mid-March, so I can break it in and get the car sorted before the Walnut Ridge Tour.

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Congratulations! We're in the same sinking ship. Just throw in a wobbling crank pulley for me.:-x I'm getting a crank from Gary and then probably going to have it honed and new rings while I'm at it. I think the Gary said the builder he uses should charge around $400-500 to rebuild the shortblock.

Okay,

I got a quote from Marvelspeed - $1050 for a bottom end rebuild if I bring in the motor, or $1650 for a complete turnkey remove, rebuild, and reinstall. Price includes replacement of all seals, gaskets, rings, bearings, and "typical" machine work.

Considering I'd have to rent a cherry picker, buy a bunch of tools I don't have, buy a bunch of you guys lunch for your help ( :wink: ), and find the time and space to remove and replace it myself, I'm leaning towards paying Marvelspeed the extra $600 to save me the hassle. Yes I know, I'll turn in my TCB badge at the front desk on my way home tonight.

I emailed Gary, and he recommended John Day Custom Engines and gave me a ballpark of $750 if I bring in the motor, but a quick look back through kags1969's posts from last summer's engine swap debacle leads me to believe that John Day was the rebuilder that hosed his motor. I sent him an email to clarify, but does anyone remember in the meantime who did Chris's bad rebuild last year?

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Originally Posted by altiain

I emailed Gary, and he recommended John Day Custom Engines and gave me a ballpark of $750 if I bring in the motor, but a quick look back through kags1969's posts from last summer's engine swap debacle leads me to believe that John Day was the rebuilder that hosed his motor. I sent him an email to clarify, but does anyone remember in the meantime who did Chris's bad rebuild last year?

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Chris's bad motor was bought from an online engine shop (from FL I think). He later bought a engine off ebay built for N/A (high compression). John Day swapped out the rods for ones from 323 turbo rods, and cut the dome from the high compression pistons to reduce the compression... I think he did some other stuff to, but I can't remember what. the engine is done, but not installed. Chris is working on fueling and wants to get it perfect before he puts the new engine in.

Chris posted info on the build on the pointy board.. You can see here.

Thanks titus. I just got an email back from Chris saying the same thing, and recommending John Day.

Now if Gary had only given me some contact info, I'd call 'em and get a quote... :banghead:

Iain, have you checked Mazdaspeed to see what they charge for an entire engine? I know it sounds insane, but you never know. I checked a year ago for a 1.6 and it was, well, let's just say closer to that price you said you'd pay than I'd have guessed...

Far out, but free to check. :)

C

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Originally Posted by ccage

Iain, have you checked Mazdaspeed to see what they charge for an entire engine? I know it sounds insane, but you never know. I checked a year ago for a 1.6 and it was, well, let's just say closer to that price you said you'd pay than I'd have guessed...

Far out, but free to check. :)

C

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I haven't checked yet, but I will tonight.

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Originally Posted by ccage

Iain, have you checked Mazdaspeed to see what they charge for an entire engine? I know it sounds insane, but you never know. I checked a year ago for a 1.6 and it was, well, let's just say closer to that price you said you'd pay than I'd have guessed...

Far out, but free to check. :)

C

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Yeah. Supposedly 1.6s were dirt cheap a while ago until Mazda got greedy and started charging quite a bit more. The engines aren't quite the bargin they used to be. That's what I heard anyway.

OK, here's the quote from John Day Custom Engines:

$1150: Rebuild, includes everything that Marvelspeed offered, plus new oil pump, new water pump, and valve job on the top end. No new pistons.
$1450: Same as above, plus new pistons.
$600: cost to R & R the engine.

More importantly, John Day estimated 2-3 weeks to be done, while Marvelspeed is booked up for the rest of this month. Chris & Gary both recommend this guy, and for ~$100 more than Marvelspeed I'll also get a new water pump, a new oil pump, and a refreshed head. John Day sounds like a better deal to me.

What do you guys think?

It sounds like you'll be our litmus test...

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Originally Posted by Treibenschnell

It sounds like you'll be our litmus test...

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:clap:

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Originally Posted by altiain

John Day estimated 2-3 weeks Chris & Gary both recommend this guy for ~$100 more get a new water pump, a new oil pump, and a refreshed head. John Day sounds like a better deal to me.What do you guys think?

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Seems like a no-brainer to me! ::Flag::

So what is the cause of the noise? Did you spin a bearing? Or is it the dreaded #4 issue?

If it is #4 I'm sure you could just do a quick TCB fix with a short block of wood and just wedge it in there :P Not a perm. solution of course :D

For those of us (read: me) that don't know what the number 4 issue is... what is it?

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Originally Posted by Treibenschnell

For those of us (read: me) that don't know what the number 4 issue is... what is it?

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http://www.miata.net/solo/99miatathr...ngfailure.html

Thanks sammmy...

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

So what is the cause of the noise? Did you spin a bearing? Or is it the dreaded #4 issue?

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I haven't got the faintest idea. All I can tell you is that the car is making a noise that it shouldn't be and that noise is coming from the bottom end. The car still runs and drives just fine and feels strong... but it is my experience that noises don't just go away on their own. Given the age of the engine and the abuse it's been put through (and the abuse I intend to put it through this season :wink: ) I'd just as soon bite the bullet and rebuild it before it lets go in the middle of nowhere.

I doubt that it's a #4 issue, since this motor has 95k miles on it. The first one went at 11k, and most #4 engines don't make it much past 30k miles with normal driving, let alone what I subject the car to.

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Originally Posted by Treibenschnell

For those of us (read: me) that don't know what the number 4 issue is... what is it?

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I believe it has something to do with the coolant routing causing the #4 cylinder to overheat.

* I also will most likely be on the litmus test for John Day as I just picked up my new crank from Gary tonight and will be doing that plus new rings etc. Not sure if I can afford a total rebuild but will at least be getting the new crank installed with new bearings/waterpump/rings/and the block honed.

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Originally Posted by icepenguin66

I believe it has something to do with the coolant routing causing the #4 cylinder to overheat.

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Nah, follow sammmy's link and it'll explain the #4 problem to you. In a nutshell, Mazda installed the wrong #4 thrust bearing in a number of '99-'00 engines, which caused them to fail prematurely. The first engine in my car was replaced under warranty at 11k because of a bad #4 bearing.

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Originally Posted by icepenguin66

* I also will most likely be on the litmus test for John Day as I just picked up my new crank from Gary tonight and will be doing that plus new rings etc. Not sure if I can afford a total rebuild but will at least be getting the new crank installed with new bearings/waterpump/rings/and the block honed.

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Well, I got approval from Melissa last night, so I'll be making an appointment with John Day today to drop the car off this weekend. I appreciate the offers to help me pull the motor, but I've decided that for $600 I'll let someone with the time, expertise, and space do the job properly.

Well, we have seen two Miata engines that had spun rod bearings, one of them being Marc, aka Indy Spat and whatever his name is here, I am still learning. Marc's had two spun bearings in it. This may be what yours is Iain, but also look at the front of your crank and see if it is wobbling, may be external.

Spoke with John yesterday and he will take care of you. Luckily, he had a dead week next week so your time was good for an engine pull, he normally does not want to handle it, but he has family to feed too.

Gary

http://www.racingmazda.com/

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Originally Posted by Tim the Teacher

http://www.racingmazda.com/

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Ric doesn't do engine work. The shop that builds his engines is Stoid Racing. I got a quote from Brian at Stoid yesterday (John Garcia recommended them - he and Tommy Saunders have apparently used them for Formula Ford engines in the past), and they're quite a bit more expensive than John Day or Marvelspeed for the same job. In addition, they have neither the facilities nor the desire to pull the motor for me. That ruled them out for me.

Truth is, Marvelspeed, Stoid Racing, and John Day all came highly recommended from different sources that I trust. However, John Day had the most open schedule (and the most reasonable price), so I made an appointment with him this morning to drop the car on Saturday.

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Originally Posted by shuhart1

Well, we have seen two Miata engines that had spun rod bearings, one of them being Marc, aka Indy Spat and whatever his name is here, I am still learning. Marc's had two spun bearings in it. This may be what yours is Iain, but also look at the front of your crank and see if it is wobbling, may be external.

Spoke with John yesterday and he will take care of you. Luckily, he had a dead week next week so your time was good for an engine pull, he normally does not want to handle it, but he has family to feed too.

Gary

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The 2nd to last engine in my 93 spun a rod bearing too ::Censor::