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Startin the project car off with a bang!
Recently got my hands on a little NB engine, thing is I have an NA.
Anyone know a good shop around here to trust with a '91 1.6L to '00 1.8L conversion, or anyone here do this before?
Trust the Flyin' Miata conversion kit?
Hahah, I'm not gonna attempt this one, anything past a clutch and flywheel change and I'm lost.
A few of us (i.e. me) have done the NA 1.8 swap. To put an NB engine in a NA will either require the complete ecu and harnesses or a rpm switch to control the VICS on the intake manifold.
Ataim is another one that did the 1.6 to 1.8 swap, but I'm pretty sure he used an NA 1.8 not an NB 1.8.
Awesome so other people have done it, now I just need to find a shop that can do it good.
And how different is the connection from the headers to the downpipe between a 1.6l and the NB engines? would it be possible to mod a 1.6l downpipe to fit a 1.8?
Think the big issue is how to get NB engine to work in a early NA. Has anyone here tried that trick??Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChadVIII
What side of town are you on ChadVIII doesn't seem to be on your profile.
Good luck with the project. I can't wait to see how it turns out.
Richardson right near Richardson Square Mall, just updated profile haha. I should have the total ECU for it, I guess I'm in for some wiring. Gotta love EE degrees.
Now that will work! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChadVIII
Why don't you stick the engine in yourself? That would be the TCB (Team Cheap Bastard) method! ::Flag::
Won't the real trick here be the emissions requirements of the '00 ECU (OBD-II) since he's going from an OBD-0 motor?
From the TxDOT:
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/Misc...ine.html#swaps
They may require you to meet the '00 emissions requirements.Quote:
Therefore, the inspection requirements would be for the model year of the vehicle (same as the year of reconstruction) or the year model of the engine itself, whichever is the later model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave04
Ding ding ding!!! This would be my major concern. I just dunno!
Well the engine met the inspection requirements from the NB it was pulled from, so sticking it in my car it should just give the same readings, I might just need to stick an NB cat on there.
..and why do you want to do this, anyway????????? :confused:
Sorry... there's a lot more to it than just the cat...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChadVIII
You'll have to install and wire all the sensors (evap stuff around the gas cap, extra O2 sensor 'cause ODB-II has two of them, etc, etc).
Also, just faking the ECU out to think it's meeting emissions is illegal and subject to a fine...
Well put Dave, I was thinking of that too. Not to mention the receiver that they plug the OBD2 cars into. 91' doesn't have that either.
Or would it just require the tailpipe sniffer, like a regular 91'. Dave's post got me curious, now I want to so some research. Learn something everyday!
I know that they can put an ODBII car on rollers if it can't make a connection to the ECU through the port.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpie
I have heard that too... but I can't seem to find it spelled out in the regs on the TxDOT web site. I can image there are at least some hurdles you have go through before they will let you do the dyno test.Quote:
Originally Posted by Titus
The long and the short of it: I'm not trying to talk TheChadVIII out of doing it, but just recommending you do some research first and know what you are getting in for.
From my Honda Civic days, ODB0 to ODB-II was very messy.
Good question...Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMerv
I'm doing it because my 1.6l engine now has 130k miles and I'm not trusting pushing it very hard, much less putting a turbo on it, and I picked up an almost new NB engine for much much less than a rebuild. plus I'll get 30 horsies.
Plus about the whole emissions thing. Every shop I've ever been to for inspection has asked 0 questions, just scans the VIN number and do what the machine tells it to do, which it'd come back OBD 0 from my 91 VIN. Or if for some reason someone really knows miata at the inspection shop then I'll go find another inspection shop that isn't so astute. So I'm not too worried about emissions as long as it passes the tailpipe sniffer.
As long as the conversion is done right and it runs properly, there shouldn't be a problem passing inspection. Hell, if I can take my 96 Z28 and rip off all the emissions equipment and rebuild the motor with the biggest cam possible without major mods and no cats and still pass inspection then I think a regular 1.8 swap would do okay!
Obviously you don't know how long these babies can run! Sunny has 201K and I probably push her as hard as anyone ;) The engine has never been apart, only timing belts, a water pump, and a clutch.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChadVIII
And.....horsepower ain't everything! :drive:
My 1.6 came out at 213k without being opened up too. I only pulled it because my turbo came with a free lower miles motor. I can't drive as fast as Merv, but my car was pushed for 90k I had that motor in there. You don't need to be in a hurry, you got plenty of life in that engine. :burnrubr:
Yeah, like he said, if the motor isn't making any noises and is running fine then keep on zoom zooming!:drive:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpie
Yep. I have 140k on mine and it's still going strong. :burnrubr:
Keep the oil changed on a regular basis, keep the other maintinence current and the motor should serve you well for many, many more miles.
If you're concerned you can always do a compression check. I'll bring my compression gauge to the next tech day. ;)
There's something to be said for the 1.6 motor anyway. It's more rev happy than the 1.8 and in someways suits the car better. I love my 1.8 but if I had a 1.6 I know I'd be just as happy. In fact, I hope to add a 1.6 to the stable some day. I've never owned a 1.6 but I've loved the ones I've driven.
I'd spend the money on track time, driver instruction and maybe a good set of sticky tyres. The aftermarket chassis brassis are another excellent and cheap mod on the early cars.
Yea I'm attending the PCA thing on the 19th. The car came with a brand new set of cheapo tires that I'm having fun with wearing out, hopefully I'll have some made out of a decent compound for the real stuff.
I'm not doing the swap /right/ away, but eventually (I do have most all the parts). Anyone know if I should invest in a 1.8l or aftermarket radiator to keep the extra 200cc's cool?
The aftermarket direct replacements are for all NAs so I wouldn't put it on the top of your list of things to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChadVIII
I think the swap kit from Flying Miata would be worth looking into. You'll also need a 1.8 exhaust manifold or header. I'm not sure if you will be able to control the EGR system-probably just block it off. I doubt any of the guys at the inspection stations will even know it's not a 1.6l engine, unless they just inspected one ahead of you. Oh, the VICS can be controlled by the $35 rpm switch available from Summit Racing. There is so much info available on this swap on the pointy board it will take you days to go thru it all. I don't know what your situation is, but for what a shop will charge you to do this work you could easily buy the necessary tools, hoist, etc and do it yourself(with a little help from your friends). My 2 cents. YMMV. etc. ;)
Blasphemy! I have a 1.6 in the garage and did the 1.8 swap on my white car and would never look back. The 97 motor I put in my 90 is plenty rev happy IMO and the extra hp and most noticable the tq is wonderful. I burned off half my tyre life the first month after the 1.8 swap cause I couldn't stop flooring everywhere!Quote:
Originally Posted by black roadster
I have a nice write up on the 1.8 swap I used plus some comments I added to it. Send a pm with your email if you want it.
Like Mark52 said, the FM kit is a must. At least the brackets are, I had plenty of wiring around the house to extend the sensors and Gary had some motor mounts that I picked up. Not sure if the motor mounts from that year will work, but you can get those from FM also. And yes you will need the exhaust manifold/downpipe from the year car of the motor you use. The rest of the exhaust can be welded to match up. Not much different than a regular motor swap. Just have to extend a few wires and in your case wire in a rpm switch.
So did you use the 1.8l ECU or just the VICS switch, and pm sent for that write up haha.
I just emailed that write up. Pretty good explanation on what needs to be done. I used a 97 motor so I didn't have to worry about the VICS, that was 99+ I just had to extend the CAS wires a bit and extend the O2 sensor wire and since I got an entire 97 factory exhaust (which isn't neccessary, I just got it for $20 so...) I also had to have the second O2 bung welded shut.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChadVIII