I'm getting screwed by FARMERS INSURANCE

I was rear ended a couple weeks ago and the insurance company is refusing to pay even though I have full coverage and am not at fault!

Link to the first topic

I was sitting at a stoplight and a guy in an F150 rear ended me. He's obviously at fault. It happened in morning rush-hour traffic. His vehicle was barely scratched and mine seemed moveable, so we both agreed to move the vehicles out of traffic. I had to back up and cut into a gas station driveway as I couldn't go anywhere else and he had already pulled his truck in the same driveway. I cut it a little short and accidentally pulled up on the curb a little. I didn't think anything of it, and pulled forward and then did it right. Apparently, this curb broke the mounting arm off of the diff case ($806+labor), despite the fact that there are no marks on the case. There are some scratches on the underbody brace, but very minor. I decided the car could be limped home and noted gear noise on the way home (there was no leaking fluid). The noise was from the diff sitting on the chassis bracing and transmitting the sound from the diff and tranny. Great.

We both had Farmers Insurance which I thought might be really convenient; boy was I wrong. I called them to make a claim, they took my statement, said it was obviously his fault, and told me to take it wherever I wanted. I chose to take it to Farmers' suggested shop, Freeman Mazda, falsely believing that this would speed up the process of getting my car fixed. I got a rental, paid for by the other guy’s policy, and drove home feeling very fortunate for insurance!

One week later the shop called to tell me my car was ready to be picked up, but that there was a problem. The diff had apparently broken FURTHER so that the car is now not drive-able. I took it in bashed up, but driving; and they tried to give it back to me 'fixed' but on a tow truck.

I immediately called the insurance company and was greeted with the news that they had “denied that portion of the claim” because the damage to the diff could not have been caused by the impact to the rear. Up to this point it hadn't even crossed my mind that I could have damaged the car on the curb. They sent me pictures and there were some scratches on the chassis brace under the diff, and a small scratch on the powerplant frame just in front of the diff.

All in all I don't know how the diff broke, but I do know that had that moron not decided to 'go' while everyone else was stopped, then none of this would have happened. It seems clear to me that I started off with a perfectly good driving and looking car, and ended up with a worthless hunk of junk through no fault of my own. I shouldn't have to pay to fix a thing. That's why we pay for Full Coverage, Comprehensive Insurance right?

Farmers has agreed to 'let me' claim the damage to the diff on my comprehensive coverage. Sounds like an ok deal, definitely better than paying for it myself right? Lets look at the numbers:

Estimated repair cost for diff: $2000
Estimated repair cost for body: $3000

Amount claimed on his policy: $3000
Amount claimed on my policy: $2000

Total cost of rate increase due to claim on my policy (over 3 years): $1700
Deductible: $500

Total cost to me: $2200 <----*It costs me MORE to claim it on insurance than it does to have insurance and pay for it myself.

In addition to the above cost I still have my current premium, which isn't pretty. What good is the insurance doing me here? It's costing me $200 more to use insurance I've ALREADY PAID FOR than it is to have insurance and not use it. The total cost incuding premiums is outrageous and I'm getting less than NOTHING for it.

I've been driving for 11 years and have paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $21,000-$23,000 in insurance premiums in that time. All told, I've had three claims. Total payout on the other two was $1100. Including this diff claim (but not the body, that went on the other guys policy), they've paid out approximately 13.4% of the total premiums I’ve paid to them. That leaves 86.6%, or $19,900 that I've paid for their worthless infrastructure and for their corporate fat cats to play golf.

These huge insurance companies are EACH making BILLIONS of dollars a year off of us and I wish I could say that my story was rare. Insurance companies make more money just by denying claims. That’s standard business practice. Industry wide regulation is non-existent and these corporations are scamming us blind.

Here are some links to sites about people who got screwed by insurance:

'Farmers Insurance Sucks' Site

bad faith insurance.org

I’m not telling you to not have insurance, but I am seriously disappointed in what I’m getting for my money.

Might be time to tell them that you don't want this to become a "pain in your neck".

insurance is nothing more than state mandated, legalized extortion (in my opinion) getting mad at the companies is not the answer though.....get mad at the people and legislation that allows them to conduct business.

good luck, btw I have Farmers....made 1 claim in over 20 years of premiums.
Took forever to fix and they put blowouts back onto the car....they are all the same, it's not just the insurance it's their ability to get away with doing this to you legally.

I know I've read at least 1 story of a guy getting rear-ended and the diff. mounting arm breaking. Search for it on miata.net, it's there somewhere. I really doubt it was the curb that did it; I hydroplaned off-road in my 94 and I know the rear smacked the curb, and I was going ~30mph. I ended up all the way up onto the median and down about 100ft from where I initially went up. No problems with the diff from that one.

FWIW, I've been extremely pleased w/ my insurance; I've never been hassled and they've always treated me very well. I'm not with Farmers, but I have had a claim against them and gotten screwed over, to the tune of $4k+. That was a lesson learned for me, never again will I be taken like that.

If it was me, I would bypass the adjuster and go back to my agent. I would ask the agent nicely to see if there is anything he can do. When he says it is out of his hands (and he will), I would ask him if he has any names of good insurance brokers because "It feels like it is time that I start shopping rates". The Agent knows that his rates are not the lowest, and that you use choose to go with Farmers for better service. When he asks you why you would want to shop rates, tell him the truth. You pay a premium to Farmers for top notched service and you are not getting it. If they are not going to go the extra mile for you, there is no reason to be paying the higher premium. Your agent gets a piece of your premium, so he is really the only person at Farmers directly effected by you leaving for another INS company. If there is anything he can do influence the adjuster and make things better, he will. If he still says it is out of his hands, then your are likely SOL.

Also keep in mind that the diff is designed to break in a rear impact and absorb some of the energy. Search around Miata.net and see what you can find. I remember reading some similar storys of insurance not covering a broken diff. Good luck and sorry to hear about your problems.

Here is an example of a Miata diff broken in an accident.

http://www.cheapsportscar.net/flip.php?x=8

For the record, I hate insurance companies. However, I believe there is a special circle of hell reserved for Farmer's Insurance.

Want to get your money's worth? Sue Farmer's. True story:

Back in 1995, I hit a woman who made an unprotected left turn across a 4-way intersection (I had a green light and complete right of way). My car was heavily damaged, and hers was totalled. We both had Farmer's Insurance. I filed a claim against her, she filed one against me (even thought the police report put her at fault). My claim was paid, hers was denied. She turned around and sued me in small claims court for $5000. Since the insurance company was involved, they paid her $2500 out of court to settle the lawsuit, even though she was completely, utterly, and 100% at fault. It was cheaper for them to do this than defend the lawsuit, which they were obligated to do under law because I was insured at the time of the accident. Unfortunately, I was given no say in the decision to settle - I was looking forward to my day in court with that woman.

Long story short, sue the bastards if you don't feel like they've honestly represented you in your claim. The threat of a lawsuit - and the costs involved - are the only thing that will motivate that miserable company to lift a finger to help you.

I agree with Iian, get a good lawyer.

I have explored the possibility of legal action but I've been told that it's not worth it for 'just a couple grand' both by lawyers, agents, and friends. It's a little more important than that to me, which is why I haven't given up yet. Do any of you who've been involved in legal action involving insurance wish to add anything? Is it worth it?

I should also note that I've spent hours and hours on the phone trying to sort this out, I've talked to the adjuster, agent, their bosses, etc, and my lawyer has also given them a call (without legal action thus far). I've probably talked to 15 people in that organization so far and they've all been mostly plesant and tried to help, they've also all AGREED that they thought Farmers should pay the claim, but then admitted they don't have the authority to authorize it. In fact the ONLY two people who will not agree are the insurance adjuster and his boss, both of whom were rude, insinuated that I was a liar, and denied that Farmers should hold any responsibility. They're also the only two people who do have the authority to decide if the claim gets paid or not. Just in case anybody knows them, their names are Rick Boatright and David Powell. They eat children and kittens.

Billy, I am mad at the govt for letting this go on, but I'm also mad at the insurance industry for not self-regulating. Plenty of other industries can manage to make money without stealing from us, why can't the insurance companies?

I'm also filing a complaint with the Insurance Commissioner; whatever thats worth.

This whole thing just makes me sick to think about.

yeah it pretty much sux all the way around, I really hate to hear about this kind of thing happening to anyone, I got my wake up call a few years ago.

Good luck with it all.

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Originally Posted by Titus

Here is an example of a Miata diff broken in an accident.

http://www.cheapsportscar.net/flip.php?x=8

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The diff in my mod car came from a rear ended Miata. It was broken in the same place as this picture. They welded it back up. I was told they break all the time in rear end accidents. Maybe Mazda Matrix or some used Miata parts company can back up your statements that this is some what common.

You have convinced me not to buy Farmers Auto.

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Originally Posted by EvilSpeeder

Farmers has agreed to 'let me' claim the damage to the diff on my comprehensive coverage. Sounds like an ok deal, definitely better than paying for it myself right? Lets look at the numbers:

Estimated repair cost for diff: $2000
Estimated repair cost for body: $3000

Amount claimed on his policy: $3000
Amount claimed on my policy: $2000

Total cost of rate increase due to claim on my policy (over 3 years): $1700
Deductible: $500

Total cost to me: $2200 <----*It costs me MORE to claim it on insurance than it does to have insurance and pay for it myself.

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Have they told you your rates would increase?? I made a comprehensive coverage claim over a year ago and never saw any changes in my rates, but I do not have Farmers.

BTW. How does Freeman Mazda think it got broke?? Do they think the curb could have done it or do they feel it was a result of the rear end collision??

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Have they told you your rates would increase?? I made a comprehensive coverage claim over a year ago and never saw any changes in my rates, but I do not have Farmers.

BTW. How does Freeman Mazda think it got broke?? Do they think the curb could have done it or do they feel it was a result of the rear end collision??

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As I understand it, insurance companies won't raise your rates for non-preventable claims (hail, theft, etc) unless you start to show a pattern of having more of these claims than the average person. If the insurance company claims that it wasn't an act of nature, and it wasn't someone else's fault, then it gets classified as negligence or preventable. In these cases, your rates tend to go up after only one claim. Basically, having your car dented from Hail doesn't tell them much about the likely hood of a future claim, but someone that runs over a curb is seen as more likely to cause an accident and cost them even more money.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Have they told you your rates would increase?? I made a comprehensive coverage claim over a year ago and never saw any changes in my rates, but I do not have Farmers.

BTW. How does Freeman Mazda think it got broke?? Do they think the curb could have done it or do they feel it was a result of the rear end collision??

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Yes. I have an independent agent and we went over the numbers. I have one other claim that was around $500 in september, nothing but a few tickets in the past beyond that.

This has turned out so bad that I'm thinking about selling the MSM. I can't pay it off right now, and I have other things to drive. Every penny less I give to them is a small victory as is every extra penny I cost them.

I thought about trying to fix it myself. The part is $810, the labor probably wouldn't be that bad, but I can't deal with the additional stress of fixing another car and I shouldn't have to.

???? You've been given several links to this part being broken in a rear end collision. Have you printed the info. out and taken it in? I'd start with this method.......Good luck

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Originally Posted by Sharpie

???? You've been given several links to this part being broken in a rear end collision. Have you printed the info. out and taken it in? I'd start with this method.......Good luck

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No, I haven't. I've been told over and over that the decision has been made and they will not change it. I've had lawyers call them, I've talked to supervisors and then their supervisors. You have to remember, these people consider themselves experts. I hardly think a couple of anonymous and uncorroborated posts on an internet forum would do anything to change their decision. The only way I will recover my money is through legal action. My point in all this is that this is how these companies make their money. In this case, the system is working exactly like its supposed to. Both parties in this accident will have increased rates, at least one deductible. They've increased their net profits while we pay more money just to use a service that we've been paying for for most of our lives. It's just wrong. I don't understand how the system can get to this point and most people don't notice or care that they're getting scammed. It's just wrong.

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Originally Posted by EvilSpeeder

Yes. I have an independent agent and we went over the numbers. I have one other claim that was around $500 in september, nothing but a few tickets in the past beyond that.

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Why not go ahead and claim it get the thing fixed and then just change insurance carriers? I don't understand your loyalty to this independent agent? Are you caring his baby or something?

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Why not go ahead and claim it get the thing fixed and then just change insurance carriers? I don't understand your loyalty to this independent agent? Are you caring his baby or something?

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I'm not sure in his situation, but when I moved to NC I changed insurance carriers, and found out that despite being told that my ice incident with the Xterra was covered under comprehensive, when other insurance carriers pulled the insurance record it was not reported that way to them, and caused me a higher rate temporarily.

I think some of the advice here is maybe not to deal with the issue with a lawyer, as their expenses are quite large, but rather as said look in to small claims court if you want to explore legal means. Don't let it eat you up though, because there are much bigger issues than insurance to get ulcers about.

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Originally Posted by wrxmr2eater

I'm not sure in his situation, but when I moved to NC I changed insurance carriers, and found out that despite being told that my ice incident with the Xterra was covered under comprehensive, when other insurance carriers pulled the insurance record it was not reported that way to them, and caused me a higher rate temporarily.

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The rates going up one way or another why not switch and at least you'll be funding a new group of insurance scum, plus there is always the chance that they may not report it unfavorably.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

The rates going up one way or another why not switch and at least you'll be funding a new group of insurance scum...

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True, true.... ;)

When we changed, we found a small Allstate agent that knows what customer service is about and taken away most of my anger towards Progressive by making things right for us now. Changing insurance companies is not usually a bad thing.

I don't have any complaints with state farm. I've never made a claim though.

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I don't have any complaints with state farm. I've never made a claim though.

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Mom had to sue them to get them to pay a claim. I'll never be a customer of theirs. I'm quite happy with Farm Bureau.

RJ

I don't have any loyalty to the agent really. He doesn't make any money from our auto (only homeowners), and he's been really helpful so I'll at least give him a chance to find us something other than Farmers. I will be switching as soon as possible, both homeowners and auto. As had been mentioned I don't expect much better service from any of the other carriers, but at least it's a group that hasn't already screwed me.

The car is fixed and seems to be ok although I haven't put many miles on it.

It ended up costing $1700 to repair the body work and $2300 to repair the diff.

Sorry for your headaches Evil, I gave up on insurance some time ago, as well as brand new cars. I just carry liability, & uninsured motorist. I save thousands/year by forgoing the car payment & full coverage insurance.