I hope someone will "poz up the neg hole" of Spax suspension

I bought some dirt cheap used, had them revalved because a buddy had a set of seals to do the work. Well those seals blew, and not Spax won't sell new seals to repair these. Pretty gayed out if you ask me. I knew spax sucked going into it, but i thought with resealing and new springs they would be much better. They were, but who knows what went wrong, and now I'm screwed. I don't know what to buy now since I don't want to ship back to japan with teins and blah blah blah.

Regardless...thanks alot Spax.

Moral of the story: Its too bad H&R doesn't sell coilovers for our cars anymore.

What don't you like about TEINs?

Are you looking for coilovers only instead of springs and shocks?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miatamoto

What don't you like about TEINs?

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Probably that they would triple the value of his car...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miatamoto

What don't you like about TEINs?

Are you looking for coilovers only instead of springs and shocks?

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they apparently don't last longer than about 50k miles, and only a 1 year warranty. Why pay $1800 for something with that low level of service, and I don't think its cheap to ship to japan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tailchaser

Probably that they would triple the value of his car...

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nah, just double it. ::Censor::

Interesting. I know that Moss sold the Spax for about a year, but I don't recall hearing of one person that tried them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

they apparently don't last longer than about 50k miles, and only a 1 year warranty. Why pay $1800 for something with that low level of service, and I don't think its cheap to ship to japan.

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If you search msg boards enough you'll find people complaining about every product avail. But Tein Flex are 1200.00 and very highly recomended.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JDMClassic

If you search msg boards enough you'll find people complaining about every product avail. But Tein Flex are 1200.00 and very highly recomended.

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They are not rebuildable though, and why pay so much for something thats doesn't last that long?

I probably just going to get some old bilsteins and send them into aftershocks and get perches for the springs I had cut for the spax coilovers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

Interesting. I know that Moss sold the Spax for about a year, but I don't recall hearing of one person that tried them.

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We all knew they sucked, but I got them so cheap that it was worth getting them revalved with new springs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

We all knew they sucked, but I got them so cheap that it was worth getting them revalved with new springs.

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If you are ready to trash them, does it still seem worth it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

If you are ready to trash them, does it still seem worth it?

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I already have that service done. It was free through a friend, but apparently something went wrong. Is there any damper/spring package that handles on these cars?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I already have that service done. It was free through a friend, but apparently something went wrong. Is there any damper/spring package that handles on these cars?

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I have the FM spring with KYB AGX shocks and I am pretty happy with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

I have the FM spring with KYB AGX shocks and I am pretty happy with them.

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is that a linear spring?

This car is not going to be a daily driver, I want something thats specifically trackable. I don't want to get something too soft, because I don't want to drive this car daily.

btw, do any spring/damper combo's actually make for decent performance. The last thing I want is grotesque understeer that probably dialed in for safety of idiot drivers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

They are not rebuildable though.

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Type Flex is availble for overhaul.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JDMClassic

Type Flex is availble for overhaul.

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$1800 though. I'm just pissed off. Now I think I'm going to do a rebuildable bilstein strut, and need to pick a fairly stiff spring. From what I find though, no one makes a decent spring though, only crap for daily driving. Its pretty stupid if you ask me.

I don't want to be stuck with something that plows through corners.

Sounds like you want the Mazda Comp Spec Suspension. It comes with the Bilsteins and really stiff Eibach springs.

You may also find this useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

Sounds like you want the Mazda Comp Spec Suspension. It comes with the Bilsteins and really stiff Eibach springs.

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meh, I can't afford that crap. I'll just have to fix the Jetta and drive it. So much for going to hallet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

meh, I can't afford that crap. I'll just have to fix the Jetta and drive it. So much for going to hallet.

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Then I point you back to what I use... FM springs and KYB AGX shocks... a cheap compromise. The springs are about halfway between stock and Spec Miata, and the package can be put together for just under $500. Another option is Ground Controls coilovers for around $400 where you can choose whatever spring rate you want, and then add the re-buildable shock of your choice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

Then I point you back to what I use... FM springs and KYB AGX shocks... a cheap compromise. The springs are about halfway between stock and Spec Miata, and the package can be put together for just under $500. Another option is Ground Controls coilovers for around $400 where you can choose whatever spring rate you want, and then add the re-buildable shock of your choice.

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I'll probably find some blown rebuildables, then move the perches and springs over to those bodies. Then be awesome. Seriously, I don't care to compromise on this issue. I'd hate to actually get out on a track for the first time in years and be in a car that pushes all over the place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I'll probably find some blown rebuildables, then move the perches and springs over to those bodies. Then be awesome. Seriously, I don't care to compromise on this issue. I'd hate to actually get out on a track for the first time in years and be in a car that pushes all over the place.

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Have you even been out on the track in a Miata yet? Talk Michael into taking you out to the ranch the next time the guys go and ride in a few different setups.

JDMclassic is correct. TEINs are rebuildable and can be custom valved. I went with the highest custom front spring rate that was suggested on the stock Flex valving.

They've been great and I'm happier with the fit and finish on the TEIN flex than the Ground Control Race coilovers that I had on my M3 (that were more expensive).

BTW, I'd run TEIN basics over most spring/shock combos for the Miata.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

Have you even been out on the track in a Miata yet? Talk Michael into taking you out to the ranch the next time the guys go and ride in a few different setups.

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no. His car is daily driven somewhat, mine will not be when I get my daily running again. Actually, I'm thinking about just selling both cars at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JDMClassic

Type Flex is availble for overhaul.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

$1800 though.

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Not quite sure where you're getting that price, mr brg, but the type Flex can be had new anywhere from $1100-$1400us depending on where you look, including a couple of local outlets (Track Dog comes to mind). Look for used and prices drop nicely.

Another option in the same price range would be the KW Variant 1, though that setup doesn't offer nearly the same level of adjustability as the Flex. Feedback on the KW setup for a Miata is a little on the sparse side from what I've seen thus far.

You could always pony up for AGX/Ground Control. Black Roadster has this setup and it rides extremely well! GC offers a vast array of spring rates to suit most any taste...

Something to think on, anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juxt3r

Not quite sure where you're getting that price, mr brg, but the type Flex can be had new anywhere from $1100-$1400us depending on where you look, including a couple of local outlets (Track Dog comes to mind). Look for used and prices drop nicely.

Another option in the same price range would be the KW Variant 1, though that setup doesn't offer nearly the same level of adjustability as the Flex. Feedback on the KW setup for a Miata is a little on the sparse side from what I've seen thus far.

You could always pony up for AGX/Ground Control. Black Roadster has this setup and it rides extremely well! GC offers a vast array of spring rates to suit most any taste...

Something to think on, anyway.

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I think I'm just going to get some revalvable dampers, then weld on some threaded sleeves and use my 420/390 springs. After I learn how to blow money out of my ass, and if I actually find a real job. Will the car understeer horribly with the basics?

or do the smart thing and sell both cars and get something that i can fit in, while still being reliable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I think I'm just going to get some revalvable dampers, then weld on some threaded sleeves and use my 420/390 springs. After I learn how to blow money out of my ass, and if I actually find a real job. Will the car understeer horribly with the basics?

or do the smart thing and sell both cars and get something that i can fit in, while still being reliable.

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I have had my car on the track 3 times now and I have been passenger in Black Roadster's car with the Ground Controls on the track. Neither had "horrible understeer". I actually can't even recall hearing anyone with a Miata ever complain of understeer on the track. In fact, many remove the rear swaybar to reduce oversteer. I really think you need to see how a few different Miatas behave on the track.

If you are experiencing understeer on your car, you may want to look at the rear spring rates you are running. Most people tend to have success running a much stiffer front spring than on the rear, and your stiff rear springs could add to understeer. SPEC Miatas run something like 700/325.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

I have had my car on the track 3 times now and I have been passenger in Black Roadster's car with the Ground Controls on the track. Neither had "horrible understeer". I actually can't even recall hearing anyone with a Miata ever complain of understeer on the track. In fact, many remove the rear swaybar to reduce oversteer. I really think you need to see how a few different Miatas behave on the track.

If you are experiencing understeer on your car, you may want to look at the rear spring rates you are running. Most people tend to have success running a much stiffer front spring than on the rear, and your stiff rear springs could add to understeer. SPEC Miatas run something like 700/325.

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my car handled wonderfully before the dampers died.

I've got alot of decisions to make, and I don't have the money to do them...so I'm probably just going to sell the car.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I think I'm just going to get some revalvable dampers, then weld on some threaded sleeves and use my 420/390 springs. After I learn how to blow money out of my ass, and if I actually find a real job. Will the car understeer horribly with the basics?

or do the smart thing and sell both cars and get something that i can fit in, while still being reliable.

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I really doubt the Basics will understeer and you can get a higher rear spring rate to alleviate that if that is the case. I chose a much higher front spring rate in my flex kit to prevent too much oversteer. I also removed the rear sway.

Pennington is the only place locally where I seem to need the rear sway for more rotation.

I'm also not sure where you are getting your pricing from, seems a little high. There is Gary locally, Eddy at Adrenaline Racing that deals with a lot of TEIN stuff, and there's always ebay.

Performance-wise I love the TEINs. Just ask the guys I compete against, they've really turned the car around this season.

Man, I'm pretty sure this thread just lowered my IQ. :punchout:

brg, I'd advise you to do a little reading on suspension basics before you slap some kludged up spring/shock combo under the car. That set of spring rates is going to be teh suck. For a track car I'd want something a lot closer to 550-750 in the front, and 200-350 in the rear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by juxt3r

You could always pony up for AGX/Ground Control. Black Roadster has this setup and it rides extremely well! GC offers a vast array of spring rates to suit most any taste...

Something to think on, anyway.

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Yep, same here! Great at the track and still plenty streetable if ya lower the shock settings!

Ground controlls will cost over $1000 to do right, and then why should I expect the AGK's to last longer than 6 months? I don't get it, the h&r coilovers on my vw a still nice and firm at 9 years old. Why can't anyone else replicate this quality?

i'm just tired of all this stress. It seems like every week there is some new drama, and I can't seem to keep 2 cars running. I need a cheaper hobby. I should have just saved my money and bought a c5.

when people say that tein's are rebuildable...does that mean I have to get parts from some non-english speaking dude in japan to get the rebuilt, or can I actually get parts here.

What about bilstein hd's with tein springs? The hd's are rebuildable right? Does anyone actually make a strong spring, or is it just soft progressive spring rate ricer crap?

If you want stiff & cheap and insist on benchmarking against Euro hardware, why don't you track down a used R-package setup? Rebuildable Bilsteins (not that they'll likely need it), stiff springs, maybe sways too for $250ish.

I've been impressed with what you've done with the car on your described budget, but you seem suddenly keen on tossing the baby out with the bathwater...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

Does anyone actually make a strong spring, or is it just soft progressive spring rate ricer crap?

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Did you look at the spreadsheat I posted? It lists most of the different spring rates for the springs available off the shelf.

Here are some of the more common ones:

90-93 164/97
94-97 154/97
94-97 R-pkg 153/105
Jackson Racing 200/140
Racing Beat 207/145
Eibach 228/137
TEIN S 235/174
TEIN HA 280/224
Flyin' Miata 342/228
Ground Control 375/250

If you want stiffer, the TEIN are available in 55.88 lb/in increments for an upcharge and the Ground Controls are available in 25 lb/in increments.

It sounds like you want a Morton's steak at McDonald's prices... It's not going to happen unless you are willing to comb Ebay and the Miata.net classifieds for months. If you don't want to fork over some decent cash and you don't have the patience to wait out the perfect deal, you may be better off selling the car. If it comes to that, I'd be happy to give you the 2 Grand you say you have into it. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titus

Did you look at the spreadsheat I posted? It lists most of the different spring rates for the springs available off the shelf.

Here are some of the more common ones:

90-93 164/97
94-97 154/97
94-97 R-pkg 153/105
Jackson Racing 200/140
Racing Beat 207/145
Eibach 228/137
TEIN S 235/174
TEIN HA 280/224
Flyin' Miata 342/228
Ground Control 375/250

If you want stiffer, the TEIN are available in 55.88 lb/in increments for an upcharge and the Ground Controls are available in 25 lb/in increments.

It sounds like you want a Morton's steak at McDonald's prices... It's not going to happen unless you are willing to comb Ebay and the Miata.net classifieds for months. If you don't want to fork over some decent cash and you don't have the patience to wait out the perfect deal, you may be better off selling the car. If it comes to that, I'd be happy to give you the 2 Grand you say you have into it. ;)

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I wonder if I can get something arround 400/276 from tein, then revalve some bilteins. Are "run of the mill" bilstein hd's rebuildable?

I'm tired of driving this car every day. I'm too big for it or something. I'm also tired of having the slowest car on the block. I've always just wanted a car that can keep up, this one cannot. I also don't handle stress well, I'm about to lose my job, have 3 increadibly painfull injuries, and i'm generally irritable.

The custom teins sound like a good option, and with revalved bilsteins and adjustable perches merged over, I night have a pretty cool set of coilovers that perform, while using very little money and the ability to fire up the machine shop again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I wonder if I can get something arround 400/276 from tein, then revalve some bilteins. Are "run of the mill" bilstein hd's rebuildable?

I'm tired of driving this car every day. I'm too big for it or something. I'm also tired of having the slowest car on the block. I've always just wanted a car that can keep up, this one cannot. I also don't handle stress well, I'm about to lose my job, have 3 increadibly painfull injuries, and i'm generally irritable.

The custom teins sound like a good option, and with revalved bilsteins and adjustable perches merged over, I night have a pretty cool set of coilovers that perform, while using very little money and the ability to fire up the machine shop again.

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TEIN does not make scab on coilover perches. The benefit of getting a TEIN setup is that they are shortened shocks (unlike the Bilsteins) that have full shock travel when the car is lowered and are valved for the spring rates that they come with (+/- a couple kg/mm). With the Flex kit you lower the car by adjusting the length of the shock body instead of lowering a spring perch, so you can have the car very low and still get shock travel. Miatas have a problem with bottoming out on the bumpstops.

If you are dead set on doing your bilstein setup (I do really like bilsteins, they are great shocks), talk to Altiain he may have a set of coilover perches you can get really cheap. You might also want to take his advice on spring rates b/c the setup you are talking about will be pretty twitchy on the track.

BTW, I don't understand this grotesque understeer problem you talk about. I don't think I've ever driven a Miata (stock or modified) that has had a problem with understeer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miatamoto

TEIN does not make scab on coilover perches. The benefit of getting a TEIN setup is that they are shortened shocks (unlike the Bilsteins) that have full shock travel when the car is lowered and are valved for the spring rates that they come with (+/- a couple kg/mm). With the Flex kit you lower the car by adjusting the length of the shock body instead of lowering a spring perch, so you can have the car very low and still get shock travel. Miatas have a problem with bottoming out on the bumpstops.

If you are dead set on doing your bilstein setup (I do really like bilsteins, they are great shocks), talk to Altiain he may have a set of coilover perches you can get really cheap. You might also want to take his advice on spring rates b/c the setup you are talking about will be pretty twitchy on the track.

BTW, I don't understand this grotesque understeer problem you talk about. I don't think I've ever driven a Miata (stock or modified) that has had a problem with understeer.

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The 400/276 is a similar proportion as the other spring rates listed. I can pull the perches off my current crap coilovers and weld those on to some bilsteins with shortened bodies and shafts. $240 will get the bilsteins shortened and revalved. What spring rate do you recommend and why? Remember I hate driving this car in traffic, it will be pretty much a track car. Back when my car had the working suspension, it handled really well: perfectly neutral and I could gently steer with the throttle.

I don't know that I would do the tein's if even I had the money. Although they are reliable, it seems that its tough to get the parts if you don't pay tein $400 to rebuild them.



Thanks so much for the help, this really has me stressed out...big time. I've been going through hell trying to figuire out my car sittuation, and it seems that nothing can really go right at the moment, on all aspects of my life. It burns my ass that I thought I actually had something decent and fun, then it turned to shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr brg

I'm tired of driving this car every day. I'm too big for it or something. I'm also tired of having the slowest car on the block. I've always just wanted a car that can keep up, this one cannot.

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This is bigger and quicker.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Majik

This is bigger and quicker.

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I'd love to do a turbo smallblock 10.5 outlaw with one those.