roll bar?

ok, now that ive got my car, next thing is a roll bar. i really like the double hoop look and the ease of getting at the top, bu also plan to do some auto x and track stuff down the road. I like the hd deuce with the angle bars, but is that legal for ax? the other onei saw was the boss frog, but i dont like the way that it comes into the cabin at the rear arm rest or the way it angles all funny, but i can deal or make a cover or something, and if i have to go with a standard bar i guess it would be the hard core hardtop dd, anyone have any of the hoop ones that could point me in the right direction? im also fairly tall it nearly 6'2,
thanks, kyle

You don't need a roll bar to participate in an Autocross.

But the SCCA does have a rollbar specisfication IIRC. I'm sure someone will chime in shortly!

I like the look of the Hardog M2 Sport bar!

http://www.teammiata.com/images/2-bars.jpg

I might have an Autopower Roll Bar for sale. It's still on the car for the next couple weekends though.

Chris

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

You don't need a roll bar to participate in an Autocross.

But the SCCA does have a rollbar specisfication IIRC. I'm sure someone will chime in shortly!

I like the look of the Hardog M2 Sport bar!

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M2 Sport is what Chris & I both have on our cars... It works well, looks great.. but if you're 6'2" you're probably going to have a coupel issues smackin your head....

FWIW, the Hardcore is the only Harddog rollbar that is technically "SCCA SOLOI Track legal" due to tubing wall thickness... But are you going to run any of those races?

I'm also in the market for one. Its probably going to be a month or so before I'm ready to buy one. If theres anybody else maybe we can get a deal going.

the hard dog hard top bar is thicker than the standard sport bar, it is the same thickness as the scca legal one iirc.

noone know anyhting about hoop bars?

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Originally Posted by fwMiata

noone know anyhting about hoop bars?

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It looks good, but itsn't a very efficient design. I would imagine that a double hoop bar will be noticibly heavier for the same strength vs. a standard bar. I like the boss frog, it seems like a lot of thought, design, and testing went into it. But the price is what turns me off. Its definitely not TCB approved!!

The chrome double hoop 'bars' you see all over are 'style bars'. I.e. something else to kill you should the car ever flip. Hardly a safety device.

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Originally Posted by fwMiata

noone know anyhting about hoop bars?

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I know one thing - for SCCA competition, where "hoop" bars do not meet the letter of the GCRs concerning roll bar construction, they would technically be considered an illegal chassis brace.

Just buy a Hard Dog and be done with it. The Sport and Hard Core are both good models. I'd recommend the Sport if you have or ever plan to use a hard top (my Hard Core bar fits under a hard top, but it required a little customization to make it work), or the Hard Core if you don't plan on a hard top. The Sport sits back a little further and is slightly lower, while the Hard Core offers the highest possible main hoop that will still fit under a soft top.

BTW, you can still pull the top up or drop it down easily from the driver's seat with a Sport or Hard Core bar, even with diagonals. It just requires two hands instead of one.

Either way, depending on your size you may need a true racing seat to actually get enough head clearance to be safe. I've never seen anyone turned away from an event because their helmet stuck three inches up above the roll bar (either an autocross or track event), but I wouldn't want to be that driver in the event of a rollover. I know my helmet is under the bar, and my bar is much stronger than my neck. :wink:

yeah, i like the sport double diagnal, and im a tcb, dont worry. took me 6 mos to find the miata i wanted at the price i wanted to pay, and got a newer one than i expected. what is "gcr"? and i highly doubt i will do any scca stuff, maybe some er autox's and track days.

still up in the air, im leaning towards the hd deuce with the center bars but i want to see one in person first.

thanks again, kyle

FWIW, hard dog does not do "group buys"

but they will do group shipping! Shipping those things ain't cheap.....


I'm with Atalain though... Go for either the sport or the hardcore... Personally I went for the sport (at the reccomendation of hard dog themselves over the phone) because it sits further back and out of the way of your head for street driving. I do know that anyone over 6' or so can easily knock themselves in the head with my bar stil though...

Personally, I just don't like the "hoop" style bars.. they might look half decent, but they don't really do much, and aren't very cheap. but hey... it's your car... Obviously some people like 'em because they're still out there!

gcr=General Competition Rules, or in this case, shorthand for Solo I/II rules. Where SCCA is concerned GCR applies to road race preparation and competition rules. Many Solo I/II rules reference applicable GCR chapters/sections.

ahh, ok

Like POS Racing, I'm partial to the Hard Dog Sport. Several of our local autocrossers have this rollbar (onething, Majik, Lugnut John, etc) and none have ever been protested at any event that I know of. Lugnut even ran at Nationals last year with his Hard Dog Sport, and nobody protested him.

And just so you know, there has been a ton of discussion on Miata.net about "rollbar legality and the SCCA". You can do a search on that site, but this thread has some good discussion and useful links to make it all as clear as mud :? .

At the end of the day, it seems to me that most of the popular rollbars (as opposed to "style bars", which are only connected to the car at two points) -- Hard Dog Sport, Hard Dog Hard Core, AutoPower Street, AutoPower Race, BSP Competition, BSP Street, Boss Frog Double Hoop -- would meet SOLO II requirements, and could not be successfully protested. But more importantly, at most local AX venues -- including SCCA, ER, and NTS2KOC -- you wouldn't be protested anyway.

At the end of the day, unless you are planning to participate in some of PCA's Drivers Education event (out on the Track and Road Course at TMS) or go to Nationals, you'll be OK with just about any bar that attaches in at least 4 places...

Here's a not so good pic of the Hard Dog Hardcore Hardtop Double Diagonal. You're more than welcome to drive my BUR if you'd like and get a feel for the bar.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...178_9_full.jpg

hey thanks for the help, i noticed that the hard top bar wont work with any glass rear window, i would like to get one if i replace the top, so im between the deuce and the m2 sport bar with the double diagnals. does anyone have a deuce bar around here?

kyle

This is interesting!

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Originally Posted by fwMiata

hey thanks for the help, i noticed that the hard top bar wont work with any glass rear window, i would like to get one if i replace the top, so im between the deuce and the m2 sport bar with the double diagnals. does anyone have a deuce bar around here?

kyle

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My Hard Dog M2 Hard Core bar works with both the OEM glass window top and the hard top. The soft top works fine, the hard top required a little creativity to make work, but nothing that would be too difficult to duplicate.

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Originally Posted by altiain

My Hard Dog M2 Hard Core bar works with both the OEM glass window top and the hard top. The soft top works fine, the hard top required a little creativity to make work, but nothing that would be too difficult to duplicate.

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Yea with your new fangled Miata, but the aftermarket glass windows for the NA's are normal a bit bigger and can cause problems. Had that problem with mine since we couldn't ever determine who's glass window was in my car. YMMV!

I had to pull my Hardcore Hardtop bar when I installed my current top, which has a Robbins glass window. http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/ed/cry.gif

The Robbins glass rear windows are a little wider than the factory units. I was trying everything that I could to get another 1 3/4" width out of the rear braces, but there just is not enough room back there.

so, im between the m2 sport bar with double diagnals and the deuce with the center mounted bars.
thanks for all of the help

btw, anyone know of anyone that has a deuce in dfw area?

So what's the objection to the Boss Frog SCCA compliant bar?

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Originally Posted by OUTRACE

So what's the objection to the Boss Frog SCCA compliant bar?

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Cost, weight, availability.

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Originally Posted by EvilSpeeder

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Originally Posted by OUTRACE

So what's the objection to the Boss Frog SCCA compliant bar?

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Cost, weight, availability.

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Don't forget intrusion between the seats...

I'd also recomend the M2 Sport. Don't forget to get the harness tabs!

Chris

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Originally Posted by tailchaser

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Originally Posted by EvilSpeeder

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Originally Posted by OUTRACE

So what's the objection to the Boss Frog SCCA compliant bar?

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Cost, weight, availability.

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Don't forget intrusion between the seats...

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that sums it up nicely, and yeah, ahrness tabs either way.

update. just placed an order for a m2 sport dual diagnal with tabs.
anyone know if the seatbelt brace will bolt back in with the bar?

kyle

It will with the Hardcore bar, so I would say that it probably will with the Sport bar.

ok, cool

My experience indicates that the Harddog "Mod" to the seatbelt retractor is not only unnecessary, but very expensive... and hard to reverse!
My retractor failed on the driver's side; I took it in for warranty and the original dealership would only replace it if the bar was removed. (They wanted $300 to remove it :lol: )

Hiley in Arlington said that was ridiculous and ordered a new unit with express delivery. Can't ship it express from across the water due to the :shock: EXPLOSIVE DEVICE :shock: it contained. So it sat in customs longer than it would have taken on a slow boat. When it came in, they installed it without the mod, and it works just fine.

the "mod", explain this.

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Originally Posted by fwMiata

the "mod", explain this.

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Reference : http://www.teammiata.com/Rollbar-faqs.htm

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Q) I've heard there are some problems with the Hard Dogs. One is with the alignment and proper fit and the other is with the seat belt. What's the deal?

The other is the seat belt (very rare). There is a bit of trimming that must be done to the hole where the seat belt comes out (a template is included in the instructions). This allows the belt to be routed around the bar and it then works just fine - that of course assumes that you reinstalled the seat belt take-up reel properly.

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Also who installs the bar can cause issues I have a feeling this may be the case with onething's problems on his car. He paid someone to install it for him. :wink:

Don't you mean someone?

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Originally Posted by tailchaser

Don't you mean someone?

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You are correct sir! :wink:

okay.....