How to make a smoother SCCA event

My momma told me if I couldn't say something nice, I shouldn't say anything at all... but then, I don't always listen to my momma... :lol:

The event was not one of the SCCA's banner events, but in fairness, not all of it was completely controllable. The hold-up at the start was apparently caused by computer gremlins. The SCCA's "King Computer Guy" says he's going to get another computer, and opines that storing the computer in the trailer is probably not a good idea (goooood thinkin'). Sloppy corner work is a problem at every event I attend -- including my favorite, NTS2KOC events. I believe that control needs to take firm action if they hear about sloppy corner work, including halting the heat to have someone go over to the corner and speak to the workers. A little peer pressure might help get people back on their toes.

On the other hand:

- Registration was a complete cluster-you-know-what. I'm pre-registered and pre-paid for the year, but still had to wait in line for about 20 minutes just to get the same story I get every event: registration: "That'll be $20". me: "No, I'm pre-paid for the year". registration (for the 7th time this year): "Oh... OK... well, we had problems blah, blah, blah...".

- I pre-paid for the year so that I wouldn't have to get in line at 5:30am to get a good Worker Assignment. But they didn't have the pre-paid's assignments... ah, er, um... assigned, so I got a lousy assignment. This is NOT the Worker Chief's fault -- he was unable to attend, so the assistant WC needed to step up to the challenge. The challenge won... and we lost.

- Nobody likes 3 runs. We had three runs because we didn't want to risk paying a few people a little extra for overtime. Probably worked out to something like $100 or so if they had to work 2 hours longer. :roll: Good decision boyz...

- Heat balance was the worst I've ever seen. Heat One (admittedly due in part to computer problems) took 2 hours, while Heat Three -- the one I ran in -- couldn't have lasted more than 30 minutes. I barely had time to get out of the car and check tire pressure before they were sending me back to the starting line. And with only 3 runs, my "fun" was over in about 15 minutes... :x

There are a lot of reasons why I'm almost certainly not going to run SCCA events next year. Small things... like I still haven't been able to get my 2003 year-end trophy (2nd in Tire Class). Bigger things... like their seeming inability to effectively run an event. And most importantly, their lack of concern and support for new people trying to step up and make a real difference. I tried to step up and help with the computer -- learn all the ins-and-outs, be able to step in and fix problems of all kinds when they arise, etc. -- but was squashed by the person currently in charge of that work. I suppose he thought I was trying to take his job rather than seeing that I was only trying to learn and help. :roll:

To be fair, a few people on the SCCA Board -- most notably Phil Osborne -- are strong and vocal supporters of new folks trying to make a difference. But while I believe the current Board is trying to do the right things, they apparently have a number of prima-Donna’s that feel nobody can do things as well as they can. They don’t seem to really want my help (look, I have to feel welcome, or I’m just not going to play). I've got better things to do with my time than try to effect change with that bunch, and I've got plenty of other autocross options... which I will be exercising next year. I’m sure the SCCA Board will cry a river because I’m not there.

We've had 15 to 20 Miatas out at each SCCA event this year (and last year, for that matter). I wonder if anyone would notice if none showed up next year? Probably not... and worse yet, they probably wouldn’t care. :roll:

I'm thinking maybe SCCA needs to restrict all or some of their events to a "Members Only" status. I'll bet the quality of those events would improve dramatically with fewer entrants. Just a thought. Probably never happen.

San Francisco region restricts admittance through the gates to even WATCH the autocross to SCCA members. They had a nice turnout. Sadly, I didn't get through the rental car gauntlet fast enough to make it up to SF in time to run... We'll not mention the 82 year old "gentleman" that dropped his bags, shoved me out of the way, and licked the door handle on the GTO...

I don't know guys...I'm not the biggest SCCA fan but actually had a good time at this one. Maybe it was just the nice clean surface and a course that worked well with the S2000. It just seems like almost all of the problems mentioned above could fixed by limiting the enrollment to ~150 pre-registered drivers. This would ensure 4 runs, cut out some of the riff-raff noobies who show up the day of and can't get with the program, shorten all respective lines, and clean up corner working a bit. As for the BOD bit. You will never get a group of people that large who all think the same...it's all part of the game that Tom will have to manage. If he can't do this then a new person should step up to the plate.

FWIW, I found out at the last event that if you registered for the year there is NO need to check-in at registration. You are already on the list for the year. If you don't show up at an event you will show as DNS. Just get your work assignment, sign the waiver, and be done.

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Originally Posted by Clovis

"FWIW, I found out at the last event that if you registered for the year there is NO need to check-in at registration..."

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Yep, it's the Work Assignment thing that took so long -- even for us "Pre-Regs". What's the benefit to pre-paying/pre-registering if I have to stand in line to get a crappy work assignment? Yes, I know... I could have simply pushed my way to the front of the line. But that's pretty rude, and won't sit well with everyone standing in line.

And one other thing about not having to go to Registration if you've pre-paid for the year... I go there just to make sure they know I'm there, AND to see if after 7 events they finally realize that I have pre-paid.

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Originally Posted by Clovis

"... but actually had a good time at this one."

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Yeah, I'd agree with you on that one. I like the Bus Lot, and did pretty well at both Bus Lot events. The surface is kind to tires, and I enjoyed the course -- kept me very busy!

Look, nothing is perfect... and nothing is all bad. It just seems like I (and others?) take a beating at every SCCA event. Equipe Rapide events -- which have nearly as many people -- seem to run alot smoother (although they have their "opportunities for improvement" too). I come away from most SCCA events feeling drained and neutral (at best) about the day. I come away from ER and NTS2KOC events feeling like I had a lot of fun!

I don't envy Tom Ramey and his job. I offered to help. I was not made to feel welcome (OK, so perhaps I'm too thin-skinned :wink: ). I don't need to fight battles just to try and help -- so I won't. But I don't want to hear anyone on the SCCA BoD complain about people not stepping up to help... :?

And if this just sounds like "sour grapes" from me, ask tailchaser and/or altiain to give their perspectives. I don't think either of them are planning to take their positions with the SCCA next year (but I could be mistaken).

Some of my responses are in bold within the quoted text since I am not that familiar with this posting software.

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

My momma told me if I couldn't say something nice, I shouldn't say anything at all... but then, I don't always listen to my momma... :lol:

Constructive criticism is helpful.

The event was not one of the SCCA's banner events, but in fairness, not all of it was completely controllable. The hold-up at the start was apparently caused by computer gremlins. The SCCA's "King Computer Guy" says he's going to get another computer, and opines that storing the computer in the trailer is probably not a good idea (goooood thinkin').


Sloppy corner work is a problem at every event I attend -- including my favorite, NTS2KOC events. I believe that control needs to take firm action if they hear about sloppy corner work, including halting the heat to have someone go over to the corner and speak to the workers. A little peer pressure might help get people back on their toes.

Would you be interested in helping do a corner work demo at the drivers meeting. I have done them in the past, but since I tend to be long winded Peter has done the last two, and erred a bit on the other side. Personally, I think everyone should hear the cornerwork lecture everytime. Repetition is the Mother of learning (Russian proverb)
On the other hand:

- Registration was a complete cluster-you-know-what. I'm pre-registered and pre-paid for the year, but still had to wait in line for about 20 minutes just to get the same story I get every event: registration: "That'll be $20". me: "No, I'm pre-paid for the year". registration (for the 7th time this year): "Oh... OK... well, we had problems blah, blah, blah...".

The annual prepaids have been kind of screwed up all along. I don't believe it was until after the third event Lauren and I had a list of who was prepaid. It is also a bit difficult to plan when you have a bunch of prepaids and online registration folks who may or may not show.


- I pre-paid for the year so that I wouldn't have to get in line at 5:30am to get a good Worker Assignment. But they didn't have the pre-paid's assignments... ah, er, um... assigned, so I got a lousy assignment. This is NOT the Worker Chief's fault -- he was unable to attend, so the assistant WC needed to step up to the challenge. The challenge won... and we lost.

Identify yourself as an annual prepaid when you come up to worker assignment, and I would accomodate. Lauren may recognize you, but I don't.

- Nobody likes 3 runs. We had three runs because we didn't want to risk paying a few people a little extra for overtime. Probably worked out to something like $100 or so if they had to work 2 hours longer. :roll: Good decision boyz...

- Heat balance was the worst I've ever seen. Heat One (admittedly due in part to computer problems) took 2 hours, while Heat Three -- the one I ran in -- couldn't have lasted more than 30 minutes. I barely had time to get out of the car and check tire pressure before they were sending me back to the starting line. And with only 3 runs, my "fun" was over in about 15 minutes... :x

Heat balance was intentional, though a bit skewed more than my target. Everyone wants to work first heat since its cooler out, to balance out the desireablity of the heats, as well as have folks out shorter times in the heat of the day the first two heats are setup to be longer than the last two heats

There are a lot of reasons why I'm almost certainly not going to run SCCA events next year. Small things... like I still haven't been able to get my 2003 year-end trophy (2nd in Tire Class). Bigger things... like their seeming inability to effectively run an event. And most importantly, their lack of concern and support for new people trying to step up and make a real difference. I tried to step up and help with the computer -- learn all the ins-and-outs, be able to step in and fix problems of all kinds when they arise, etc. -- but was squashed by the person currently in charge of that work. I suppose he thought I was trying to take his job rather than seeing that I was only trying to learn and help. :roll:

To be fair, a few people on the SCCA Board -- most notably Phil Osborne -- are strong and vocal supporters of new folks trying to make a difference. But while I believe the current Board is trying to do the right things, they apparently have a number of prima-Donna’s that feel nobody can do things as well as they can. They don’t seem to really want my help (look, I have to feel welcome, or I’m just not going to play). I've got better things to do with my time than try to effect change with that bunch, and I've got plenty of other autocross options... which I will be exercising next year. I’m sure the SCCA Board will cry a river because I’m not there.

We've had 15 to 20 Miatas out at each SCCA event this year (and last year, for that matter). I wonder if anyone would notice if none showed up next year? Probably not... and worse yet, they probably wouldn’t care. :roll:

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Oh and one more thing. ER does not run the same size events. Their results are inflated due to the Rapide pax. In terms of actual numbers of individual drivers they seem to run in the 120 or so range, with a fair number effectively double counted due to the pax competition.

Yes, SCCA events have had some issues this year. We have the transition to a new system. And there is a bit of room for improvement. Help us get this right.


Regards

John Stankus
Asst. Worker Chief
FS 26

[email protected]

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

"This is NOT the Worker Chief's fault -- he was unable to attend, so the assistant WC needed to step up to the challenge. The challenge won... and we lost."

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Sorry John... that was uncalled for. You did a good job in a tough situation. I was disappointed that you were unable to "honor" the pre-paid's pre-set work assignments, but I didn't (really) mind working 4th heat.

The problem with the line at Work Check-in wasn't just at this event -- it's every event. We [Miata pilots] get a little lucky since we know Lauren (so I don't feel as bad just going to him saying "I'm here"), but the fact that there is massive confusion checking in hasn't changed. Jumping to the front of a line of 50 people is going to get a pile of people spittin' mad... that's why I waited my turn like a good boy :wink: , but feel like I shouldn't have had to (you know... pre-paid and all). Again, what's the real use in pre-paying if I'm not going to get my premo work spot? Yep, you're right... I want to work first heat. And I pre-pay the entire year to secure that nice work assignment.

And that's fair comment about ER events really being only about 120 or so people. Perhaps that tells us that we simply can't handle 200+ entrants, and should begin limiting the SCCA events to no more than 150.

As for corner work, I don't think doing anything differently in the Driver's Meeting will help. Unfortunately, I think it's time to start embarassing people while they are "working". People don't listen at the Driver's meeting, and they are often so oblivous on course that they don't even know they are causing a problem. But experienced folks know when they are a problem, and maybe it's time to start calling attention to this right then and there. Will it piss some folks off? Yep, I'm sure it will. They can take their toys and go home. We'll be left with the better course workers, and fewer problems. You wouldn't want me to give "The Speech"... I'd piss everyone off (shotty corner work is a real pet peeve of mine...). :wink:

Hey, that's my 2cents. I was all fired up to be a big help at SCCA events, but have just lost heart over the last 3 months. I tried a Board Meeting, and made some suggestions on the SCCA mailing list, but just didn't get the "warm and fuzzy" responses I -- as a new guy trying to help -- needed. I don't want to walk into a battle; I've got enough of those (ask the folks on this board -- I'm already tilting at enough windmills). :wink:

Rich Keesecker
'99 Miata 4CS
Computer Worker who takes work assignments very seriously

Thanks Rich,
I did feel bad about holding up registration. Probably should have made two lines to worker assignment desk, one for prepaids, one for everyone else. I was planning on getting the prepaids onto the list on Saturday, but my in-laws unexpectedly showed up and didn't get the time I needed to get my act together. Lauren has an advantage too, in that he knows the folks here a bit better than I.

One of the big issues that I have is getting an accurate accounting of prepaids and online registers. I have a vague list of prepaids cobbled together from snippets from the registration guy. I could use some suggestions here on how to make this work smoother. One thought is that to have your prepaid work assignment you need to confirm your attendence the week prior to the event via email (or phone if unconnected). I don't have emails for the prepaid folks, so I try to put out a general call to tell me if you won't be there, but that is not always the most effective.

I have also been thinking about trying to put together an operations manual, set down procedures for how to run the event. So we can make sure we don't repeat problems event after event (like we often do now). I would appreciate your (and everyone's) input on something like that.


Regards

John

It may be helpful to have the person on corner with the radio be a bulldog as well as a non-novice. There are several times that I have had to get on to workers at my corner for just standing around talking and not watching our part of the course.

Last year I had novices at Pennington wanting to run over to McDonalds and get ice cream cones. :x I won't even begin to mention the language that was used.

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Originally Posted by brock

It may be helpful to have the person on corner with the radio be a bulldog as well as a non-novice. There are several times that I have had to get on to workers at my corner for just standing around talking and not watching our part of the course.

Last year I had novices at Pennington wanting to run over to McDonalds and get ice cream cones. :x I won't even begin to mention the language that was used.

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Unfortunately, it's not just the Novices that were a problem last Sunday. Like I mentioned in my previous postl, one of the workers on the problem corner in Heat 2 is the current National Champion in FSAE. I don't know if he was busy wowing his co-workers with tales from Topeka or what, but lugnutjon and I had to draw their attention to a downed cone near the finish - by yelling from 75 yards away beyond the fence line - more than once. That's ridiculous.

Plus, even if you take the corner worker problem away, we still have organizational problems to overcome in the trailer. To top it off, getting only four runs for a day's effort is bad enough, but only getting three runs is downright criminal. I honestly don't know what the answer is. I wish I did, because I used to enjoy Texas Region SCCA events.

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Originally Posted by JStankus

Oh and one more thing. ER does not run the same size events. Their results are inflated due to the Rapide pax. In terms of actual numbers of individual drivers they seem to run in the 120 or so range, with a fair number effectively double counted due to the pax competition.

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ER may not have the same amount of attendees but they are putting more cars on a course that the SCCA.

ER Event with 120 cars x 6 runs = 720 cars on course in a day
SCCA with 220 cars x 3 runs = 660 car on course in a day

So actually you guys are putting less cars on course at an event than ER.

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Originally Posted by JStankus

"I did feel bad about holding up registration..."

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Don't. You didn't hold up registration... that process has been in place pretty much from the beginning.

I must say that I like your idea about having pre-reg people verify that they will be at an event, so that the Worker Chief can prepare something solid in advance. I register for each event on-line, and delete myself if I'm not going to make an event... perhaps the other pre-regs can be encouraged to do the same.

What John said about the Heat balance does make some sense and is not a bad idea to have the 1st heat workers work a bit longer in the relatively cooler temperatures. I'm certainly not opposed to that. I would probably suggest taking one or two (or 3) classes out of 1st heat just to make the remaining heats a little longer. I realize that getting the correct ballance of cars per heat is super difficult, though.

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Originally Posted by Mark52

What John said about the Heat balance does make some sense and is not a bad idea to have the 1st heat workers work a bit longer in the relatively cooler temperatures. I'm certainly not opposed to that.

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Spoken like someone who isn't signed up for the year to work first heat. :wink: (BTW. I signed up to work the first heat this year!)

First heat normally gets the pleasure of the kid carts, which adds to time on course. How hard is it to keep statistical data on the classes and balance the heats accordingly. You could review this year & last year’s results to get a better picture of the class loads. Then you could better balance the heats for next season. Since you know how much some folks like change. :shock:

Wonder if it wouldn't be a bad ideal to send the kids out first so the folks in the trailer could fine-tune the timing equipment. I'm sure the kids wouldn't mind if a couple of reruns were issued while the trailer tweaks the setup.

It seems to me the amount of cars & drivers per event is the core problem with our regional SCCA today. Why not cap entries (at 150 or whatever seems reasonable) until some of the others issues are ironed out. With cooler weather upon us, I would think the number of entries (and those who actually show up) is going to increase. YEventMV.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Wonder if it wouldn't be a bad ideal to send the kids out first so the folks in the trailer could fine-tune the timing equipment. I'm sure the kids wouldn't mind if a couple of reruns were issued while the trailer tweaks the setup.

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Yeah, but some of those re-runs would take 4 minutes! :lol:

Just kidding... I'm actually in favor of the kid karts, since everyone has to start somewhere. I think it's very cool to get them started early -- think how good some of them will be in cars by the time they are driving age? I would like the Kid Karts bit to be run better (I'm not trying to beat up Eddie and Janice H, who work very hard at this) -- lack of clear, readable numbers being my BIGGEST peeve -- but I'm still a supporter. Maybe it's because I have a couple of kids myself :wink:

POS Racing wrote:
"Spoken like someone who isn't signed up for the year to work first heat. "

First heat Starter all season (until last Sunday).

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Originally Posted by Mark52

POS Racing wrote:
"Spoken like someone who isn't signed up for the year to work first heat. "

First heat Starter all season (until last Sunday).

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Oh yea! :oops:

Hey quit trying to get us extra long work assignment! :P

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

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Originally Posted by Mark52

What John said about the Heat balance does make some sense and is not a bad idea to have the 1st heat workers work a bit longer in the relatively cooler temperatures. I'm certainly not opposed to that.

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Spoken like someone who isn't signed up for the year to work first heat. :wink: (BTW. I signed up to work the first heat this year!)

First heat normally gets the pleasure of the kid carts, which adds to time on course. How hard is it to keep statistical data on the classes and balance the heats accordingly. You could review this year & last year’s results to get a better picture of the class loads. Then you could better balance the heats for next season. Since you know how much some folks like change. :shock:

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Would you like a copy of the spreadsheet with the statistics on classes that are used for setting the run order? I'll be happy to send it to you.
The balance was a bit more front loaded than I planned. I think it was of the order (60,55,40,40) I'll make a better count tonight.
One of the problems is that the Mod and Prepared cars (or at least John Garcia) asked to have all mod and prepared cars in one heat. Which is fine on one level, but those classes tend to have the widest swing in attendance. Originally, I would distribute them out to minimize the large swing effect on any specific heat. Now I have to deal with the fluctuations there.


As for the kids karts, that has been a learning experience throughout the year. Eddie and Janis asked for them to be placed between 1st and 2nd heat. The intent is to do a hot swap in the middle of the kid karts since they don't usually hit cones. Granted at the last event when I walked up to the trailer to get my notes in order just as the kids karts started, all the second heat folks started reporting in. A bit Pavlovian, I suppose.

John

Asst Worker guy

I worked SCCA registration last year, and I can point to several things that cause a slowdown.

1. People that do not know what class they are running
2. People that stand in the wrong line in registration
3. One list of car numbers that is being maintained by someone that is
also registering entrants
4. Multiple drivers driving the same car that are not sure of what number
they want to run
5. Lost registration cards
6. "What numbers are available?"
7. "I'm paying for my buddy too, but he is in the other line."
8. "My buddy paid for me, but he was in the other line."

There are some other things as well, but these are the ones that stick out in my mind the most.

JStankus I'd love to see the spreadsheet I appreciate the offer! 8)

Has anyone heard if the on-line registration has helped speed up registration during SCCA events this year? Since it seems like it would address a lot of the problems Brock mentioned in the post above mine?

Is there any talk of going to 100% on line registration like BMW and S2k do? That way that part of the event would be done in advance thereby eliminating some of the problems? Heck you could even pay-pal for the event in advance!

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Originally Posted by brock

"2. People that stand in the wrong line in registration."

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There is no "line" at registration... it's just a mob. In order to have a line, you need to have "line markers" -- perhaps a long row of cones or something. Otherwise, people simply crowd the table(s) trying to get up front first.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

[Has anyone heard if the on-line registration has helped speed up registration during SCCA events this year? Since it seems like it would address a lot of the problems Brock mentioned in the post above mine?

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On-line has not been the best run this year. No mechanism to encourage folks to un-register themselves if they change their mind about coming. Registration should not be opened until a number of weeks before the event. This is to reduce the no-shows. I would love to see pay-pal or some other payment mechanism, If folks have some bucks invested they would be more likely to only register for what they will attend. I can't even get the emails of the online preregistered folks to send them a note to ask if they will attend.

Annual pre-paids are another issue. I am going to propose that those folks must confirm attendance to get their preferred work assignment.

100% preregister events I think would be nice, but I have feeling that there would be some resistance on the board.


Regards

John

JStankus I got your spreadsheet! Thank you very much!

I know S2K has a window in which they open registration for the events on line. DLBracing should be able to do the same for you. I'm sure 100% on-line is a lofty goal but if you make it enticing to folks it could work! These computers seem to be catching on maybe it’s time to embrace the technology. :lol:

It is a feature of DLBracing to set the registration open date. DD didn't do that so registration is open for all events all year


John

Don't get me wrong about the registration mess. I think that the people working registration are doing a great job. I believe the problem is that the people walking up to the table that have no clue what is going on are what really mess up the whole process.

The greater problem, and the one that is almost impossible to solve is the problem of the uninformed/uneducated.

Ultimately I do not believe that a real solution will be found until you are able to register, pay, and select your work assignment online. Then take a printout to a prereg line where a barcode is scanned to confirm you are there. Finally you sign the insurance waiver. Something along these lines would greatly streamline the process.

Unfortunately it is too much of a change for most to feel comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by brock

"...I believe the problem is that the people walking up to the table that have no clue what is going on are what really mess up the whole process...."

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:?: What? How can the uninitiated be responsible for messing things up? Someone who doesn't know what's going on simply needs to be told/shown what is going on. Blaming them for the mess is like blaming customers waiting in line at the Post Office for how slow that line moves ("silly people... they should know that four of our five people behind the counter are going to take their 2.5 hour break starting at 11:00am..." :P )

Sure, there are lots of people at events that don't know what they have to do... someone has to tell them. And the process needs to be simple, and clearly "marked" in order to be effective. The SCCA actually has attempted to make things clear to everyone -- they put up signs over the tables to try and let people know what they need to do. But apparently more is needed:

- clearly marked lines,
- perhaps a simple hand-out that folks can be given that explains (in 200 words or less, and lots of pictures) what they need to do,
- maybe someone who's job it is to shepard folks and answer questions.

Don't blame the aimless masses if they don't know what to do... help them!

It may just be me, but before I showed up at my first AX I had already found out everything that was expected of me by spending about 15 minutes on the TX Region website. Even after spending an entire 15 minutes finding this elusive information I was asking people that looked like they knew what they were doing if what I had found out was correct. Additionally if I did not take that 15 minutes to find out what I was supposed to do, I would at least speak up and say something like "Hey, this is my first time at this sort of thing. What do I need to do?"

In the three years, two half seasons and one full, that I have been involved in AX I have only heard two people ask this. Most people stand in a registration line for 20 to 30 minutes surrounded by people that know this and still come up to the registration desk and ask "What class am I in?"

I guess that this is just way too much to ask, and that is why it is my opinion that the "aimless masses" deserve to be blamed.

I do agree with you though that we need to educate them. I vote that we set up a "Help, I'm lost" table with a huge banner, as the "aimless masses" don't usually have any indication as to who they are tatooed to their forehead.

I have actually seen printouts with novice autocrosser instructions available, but these are usually not in plain sight or on a table after you get past registration. This may have been at ER and not SCCA though.

As for the lines, we tried that last year and people still could not get it right. I guess they were not looking far enough ahead.


http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/otn/funny/peace.gif
Sorry, I'm a little cranky since I forgot the NP today and my boys are a little on the raw side.

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Originally Posted by Kestrel

Don't blame the aimless masses if they don't know what to do... help them!

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But why should this responsibility lie solely on the shoulders of the folks having the autocross (no matter who the organization). Some of this responsibility for being prepared for an event lies on the attendee. I understand that folks are going to come to these events and may not have all their ducks in a row, but they also need to share some responsibility to be prepared to go play autocross. A lot of the need to know stuff is readily available on the Internet and it's not like we don't help newbie’s who ask for help, I have and IIRC you were one of the folks I helped. :wink:

Plus do you think the registration issues were the primary reason we only got three runs on Sunday?

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Originally Posted by JStankus

On-line has not been the best run this year. No mechanism to encourage folks to un-register themselves if they change their mind about coming. Registration should not be opened until a number of weeks before the event. This is to reduce the no-shows. I would love to see pay-pal or some other payment mechanism, If folks have some bucks invested they would be more likely to only register for what they will attend. I can't even get the emails of the online preregistered folks to send them a note to ask if they will attend.

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Why not? DLB Racing requires email addresses for registration. The North Texas S2000 Owner's CLub uses DLB for event pre-registration, and they seem to have no trouble sending emails out to remind participants.

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Originally Posted by JStankus

Annual pre-paids are another issue. I am going to propose that those folks must confirm attendance to get their preferred work assignment.

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Personally, although I'm prepaid for the year (contrary to what Peg D. seems to think :roll: ), I still register online for every event. Instead of asking for confirmation from annual pre-pays, why not require them to register online to secure their preferred work spots? We might not be able to force everyone to pre-register, but we can likely increase the percentage of entries that are pre-registered by taking their perks away if they don't. There is already one condition that must be met (pre-payment for the year) in order to secure a preset work assignment, I don't see any reason why there can't be a second condition (pre-register online to confirm you're going to be there for a particular event) as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JStankus

100% preregister events I think would be nice, but I have feeling that there would be some resistance on the board.

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That's putting it mildly. :roll:

Since we have some rather, umm... technologically resistant members on the board, instead of trying to force pre-registration, why not try to encourage it? I would suggest raising the event entry prices - $30 for non-members, $20 for members... but offering a $5 discount off of entry cost per event for pre-registration. This can be presented to the board as a win-win situation - if it doesn't encourage higher pre-registration numbers, then it just means Solo makes more money (Tom seems to like that). If it does encourage higher pre-registration, we don't lose any money compared to now (which Tom will like), and we streamline registration, allowing us to start events earlier and minimizing everyone's least favorite part of the day. What's not to lose?

On the day of the event, you could then segregate the Registration line into pre-registered and walkups, and if your name ain't on the pre-reg list , you pay the larger fee. No exceptions. This still allows walkups, while introducing an incentive to pre-register. Couple this with my suggestion above that requires pre-registration even for annual prepays to secure their worker assignment, and I bet you'd see pre-registration skyrocket.

Now, you put three people behind the table at event Registration - two for pre-regs, one for walkups. No more "A-M" & "N-Z" (or whatever other worthless arbitrary breakdown we're currently using) lines. Install a publicly announced pre-registration cutoff before the event (1 week, five days, whatever the computer guys need to get the collected data ready to go before the day of the event), download a list of those pre-registered so that Registration can quickly process them, and there you go. Hand a copy of that list to the guy handling the walkup line, and he can quickly see what numbers are or aren't taken - if it's on the pre-reg list, then it's not available to the walkups.

Another benefit to this system is that a larger percentage of the problem kids you have in Registration (I don't know what my number is, I don't knwo what class I'm in, etc.) will be in the walk-up line, further encouraging the people who have to suffer behind them to pre-regsiter for the following event(s). :twisted:

I don't think banning walkups will ever be practical (or possible) at an event the size we typically get. However, I don't see any reason why we can't offer incentives for pre-registration in order to encourage more people to do so. The problem with the current system is that there aren't any incentives to pre-register. Why bother, if you're going to have to pay the same amount and stand in the same long lines as the walkups?

One last unrelated suggestion - put a big, bold link to Mouton's website on the main Texas Region solo page. The link should say something like "Not sure what class you're in? Click here!". That would probably go a long way towards helping out the newbies, since most of the newbies I've met who didn't know what class they're in would have happily tried to look it up if they knew where to find the information. For whatever dumbass reason, the SCCA doesn't publish the info online (I guess so that they can rake in more money from selling rulebooks? :roll: ), but someone else thankfully has. I suggest we make it more easily accessible for newbies.

Bottom line? Put some preocedures in place to encourage pre-registration, make everyone aware of them with announcements at Driver's meetings and announcements and prominent links on the main Texas Region Solo II webpage, and then stick to them. If one of our resident technological dinosaurs doesn't pre-register because his telegraph wasn't working properly charge them the higher entry fee. They'll bitch and moan... but they'll pre-register next time. Nobody - especially a bunch of penny-pinching cone-dodgers - wants to pay more than they have to.

One thing I've learned from being married to a (former, but still dealing with my short-bus butt every day) Special Education teacher is that you have to establish a rigid and easily understandable system of rewards and punishments and make no exceptions. Once you do this, even the most difficult of kids (or autocrossers :wink: ) will figure it out. It may take some longer than others, but sooner or later they all get the picture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brock

"It may just be me, but before I showed up at my first AX I had already found out everything that was expected of me by spending about 15 minutes on the TX Region website. Even after spending an entire 15 minutes finding this elusive information I was asking people that looked like they knew what they were doing if what I had found out was correct. Additionally if I did not take that 15 minutes to find out what I was supposed to do, I would at least speak up and say something like "Hey, this is my first time at this sort of thing. What do I need to do?"

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Yep, it's just you... :lol:

All I'm saying is if you are waiting on the uninitiated to do something, then you are going to continue to have a mess. They won't, so "you've" got to do something... take positive steps to alleviate the problem. Wringing your hands, blaming "them", and hoping all the folks will take the same kind of initiative you did at your first event just ain't gonna solve the problem.

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

"But why should this responsibility lie solely on the shoulders of the folks having the autocross (no matter who the organization)."

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Because the event organizers are the only ones who can effect any change. Sure... in a perfect world, new folks would shoulder their share of the responsibility, and research what the heck is going on before coming to an event. And they'd ask questions while at the event. And all children would say "yes ma'am" and "yes sir" when speaking to their elders. :P But the SCCA, ER, PCA, whoever can't count on that ever happening. So they need to take positive, visible steps to help the situation. Steps like you suggested in your later post.

But hey, YMMV. :wink:

I like the idea of a newbie school and I for one would be willing to pay for an intro course and tech inspection rather than have to search the web and not have a human there to answer questions for me...

This way I can find out about what I need to do to prepare myself and the car for a safe and fun experience...

Raymond

Iain,
I think you are spot on with your suggestions.

We need to clearly inform people what is expected of them, and how they are to do things. Anything else leads to mayhem.

Oh and if you are preregistered and see only one line to the work assignments, create an annual prepaid line. I won't have a problem with it, and I imagine Lauren wouldn't either


John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brock

Even after spending an entire 15 minutes finding this elusive information I was asking people that looked like they knew what they were doing if what I had found out was correct. Additionally if I did not take that 15 minutes to find out what I was supposed to do, I would at least speak up and say something like "Hey, this is my first time at this sort of thing. What do I need to do?"

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I took the same 15 minutes, plus printed out a bunch of other stuff that was pertinent. I probably had 3 hours invested by the time I pre-registered.

When I got to the event, I guessed at the location of the pits and I was wrong. Another SCCA racer "suggested" that I needed to move. I guessed at the location of Tech. I got Sammm to take me to registration, where I stood in a line so I could tell them I was pre-registered. I signed some stuff, I gave somebody some money, and I was told "OK!". That was it. No instruction, no "Welcome to the SCCA", no idea if I was finished or not, and certainly no concept of what the next part of my morning was supposed to consist of.

Then to add insult to injury, my first run didn't count and I got a re-run. It was never explained to me. I simply learned of it thru conversation with some of the other folks around me. Wow, I get to go again! Yippee!

Finally, right at the end of my second run, a young lady tried to cross the exit area in order to get to the trailer. I stopped right at the end of the trailer so she could pass. While I waited the 2 or 3 seconds she needed, I looked into the trailer out of curiousity......whereupon one of the officials operating one of the computers yelled "No, we're not going to help you!" as he thumbed me past the trailer. (Yes, that's a direct quote.)

Back in the day (2002), all my officials wore them (without the "ask me anything" part) and we got asked LOTS of questions because we made a point to be available and friendly to everyone. Even WalMart has greeters, and you can ask anyone in a blue vest where the toilet paper is..... and they show you. They don't say "I'm not going to help you."

SCCA events are an environment that is not operated in order to retain or assist participants. If I'd gone there by myself, I would have been totally lost and would have left feeling like an idiot. Gee, I just had a really bad time, was treated badly, and I got 3 whopping laps for a total of 5 minutes on track all day.

I'll try this little venture again, but I have to say that treating new "customers" like they're an inconvenience is not a way to get my third dollar.

FWIW Outrace, local SCCA events are the last events I typically suggest to newbies, for many of the reaosns that have been discussed here. You need to come on out to an S2k r PCA event some time - they're much friendlier, more relaxed, and easier on those who aren't grizzled cone-dodging veterans. :wink:

Sorry folks, I edited that last message and forgot to put some of the text back in....

Prior to the "Back in the day", I intended to say something about the inability to identify officials who could be asked. I said something about them needing Polo shirts with SCCA OFFICIAL - ASK ME ANYTHING.

Now the message might make more sense..

Someone had asked for a comparison to ER events on the TX region list. When I looked at the numbers it was pretty interesting.

Well if we take a look at ER for example they have quite a bit fewer people running with them.

ER Event 1 - 172 entrants with times including 67 R pax and 6 W pax for 99 unique entrants and 542 total runs
ER Event 2 - 172 entrants with times including 71 R pax and 7 W pax for 94 unique entrants and 532 total runs
ER Event 3 - 173 entrants with times including 81 R pax and 5 W pax for 87 unique entrants and 520 total runs
ER Event 4 - 157 entrants with times including 69 R pax and 5 W pax for 83 unique entrants and 480 total runs
ER Event 5 - 161 entrants with times including 68 R pax and 5 W pax for 88 unique entrants and 498 total runs
ER Event 6 - 159 entrants with times including 62 R pax and 7 W pax for 90 unique entrants and 498 total runs
ER Event 7 - 180 entrants with times including 73 R pax and 8 W pax for 99 unique entrants and 558 total runs

ER Average -168 entrants with times including 70 R pax and 6 W pax for 91 unique entrants and 518 total runs Average

For comparison Texas Region events

TX Region Event 1 - 199 unique entrants with times x 3 runs 597 total runs
TX Region Event 2 - 173 unique entrants with times x 4 runs 692 total runs
TX Region Event 3 - 186 unique entrants with times x 4 runs 744 total runs
TX Region Event 4 - 219 unique entrants with times x 3 runs 657 total runs
TX Region Event 5 - 230 unique entrants with times x 3 runs 690 total runs
TX Region Event 6 - 155 unique entrants with times x 4 runs 620 total runs

TX Region Average - 194 unique entrants with times x 3.5 runs 667 total runs average

So ER has less than half the average unique entrants
TX region manages to get almost 150 additonal individual runs in than ER.

John

In that case, it's time to start capping event entries. I don't think I stand alone when I say I won't be coming back next year for a measly three runs when I can get six or eight elsewhere. That won't stop me from going to the Houston Tour or doing Divisionals or a Pro-Solo if SW Division hosts one, but I won't be getting my practice in at Texas Region events.

I've been running with Texas Region SCCA for over five years now, and I've often been the only one to defend the quality of their events when other people mention only getting four runs. Unfortunately, that argument hasn't been worth much this year.

Iain
(Maverick Region PCA member and NTS2kOC member)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JStankus

So ER has less than half the average unique entrants
TX region manages to get almost 150 additonal individual runs in than ER.

John

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But that's just 22% more runs per an event that the SCCA actually puts through the timing lights than ER.

Don't you have to tell the computer what the car # is so the PAX actually adds more unique cars as far as the computer is concerned.

Does anyone know what the problem was during first heat that caused it to go so slow? I had heard it was a computer issue is that true?

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

"Don't you have to tell the computer what the car # is so the PAX actually adds more unique cars as far as the computer is concerned."

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Yes, that's true. It adds more "classes" and forces the Computer Operator to have to look in more places to find the car...