SEB recommends '94-'97 Miatas for E Stock

[altiain]

Well, it's one step closer to becoming relality - Ron Bauer released the following this morning on the SCCA forums:

Here are the minutes showing the classing decisions everyone has been waiting on.

SOLO EVENTS BOARD

The Solo Events Board met by conference call September 29th. Attending were SEB members Colan Arnold, Marcus Merideth, Ron Bauer, Chris Dorsey, Mark Sirota, Mari Clements, Mark Sipe, and Andy Hollis; and Bob Introne of the BOD. The following minutes are presented in topical rather than chronological order.

SOLO II GENERAL ITEMS
• The Southeast Division and Northeast Division positions on the SEB will be vacant at the end of 2004. Interested applicants should send their qualifications in writing to the SEB and BOD via the National Office.
• Nominations from the membership are requested for the following awards: Driver of the Year, Rookie of the Year, Solo Cup, and Driver of Eminence. Descriptions of these awards may be found in Appendix K of the National Solo rule book.

SOLO II STOCK CATEGORY
• Per the SAC, the following class change proposals (effective 1/1/2005) have been recommended in the form below to the BOD:
ITEM 1: Move from BS to AS: Porsche Boxster non-S, Honda S2000 (’00-’03), BMW Z4 (all)
ITEM 2: Move from CS to ES: Mazda Miata 1.8 (’94-’97), BMW Z3 4-cyl
• The following previously-published class change proposals have been withdrawn:
Move from CS to ES: Porsche 914 1.7, 1.8, 2.0
Move from GS to DS: Mini Cooper S (‘02+)
• The proposal to remove the Porsche GT3 from the Stock exclusion list and add it to SS is still under discussion.

SOLO II STRET PREPARED CATEGORY
• The following previously-published class change proposals have been withdrawn:
Move from ESP to BSP: Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru WRX Sti

ITEMS REFERRED TO THE APPLICABLE COMMITTEES
• SAC: Possible DS to GS moves
• STAC: ST front/rear wings, rule wording

TECH BULLETINS
1) Stock: The following new listings, effective immediately upon publication, are added in Appendix A:
Mini Cooper S (‘05+) GS
2) Stock, Errors and Omissions: the correct form of the new Saab Aero and Linear listings is as follows:
Saab 9-2X Linear GS (ref. 04-582)
Saab 9-2X Aero DS (ref. 04-582)
3) Street Touring, Errors and Omissions: The previously published proposal to amend 14.2.F has been corrected to read: Add to 14.2 F. "The total surface area of all spoilers and rear wing may not exceed 8 square feet as seen from above.”

Some interesting developments:

• '94-'97 Miata could be a player in E Stock. Then again, E Stock was faster than C Stock at Nationals this year, so maybe it's time to buy a '93 hardtop MR2 instead?
• The 2.0L S2000s go up to A Stock to join their "big block" brethren - this could make interesting competition - technologically bereft, torque rich, ground pounding '80's sports cars from Kentucky versus high-revving, torque-challenged, techno-wonder roadsters from the land of the rising sun.
• '05 Mini Cooper S - the one with the new limited slip diff - goes into G Stock. Say buh-bye, crash-bolt Celicas. Of course, Minis have no camber and eat tires - could this be a secret plot orchestrated by tire manufacturers?
• The "rally cars" are now official in ESP, which is really going to make some live axle pilots nuts. They may not have won the show this year, but I predict with a year or two of development that the pony cars will be all but extinct in Street Prepared. I don't even think it will take that long in ProSolo, where the rally cars can cut mind-numbing 60' times all day long, and in any weather... as long as their drivetrains will take the abuse.

Interesting, indeed.

[Kestrel]

"Then again, E Stock was faster than C Stock at Nationals this year..."

I fully expect the 2005 PAX Index to reflect this fact. Imagine... now 1.6 Miatas have to beat the '99s straight up.

All-in-all, I think it's a very bad idea to move the 1.8NAs into ES, as it will make the 1.6NAs completely obsolete in that class. But I suppose most of them can go play in STS2E3RFEQZ (shoulda been named ST2, and stayed with the three-letter classing). Of course, it will just mean more cars in CS, which may mean I can finally get a trophy (trophies going down further in the ranking... where I usually hang out ).

[EvilSpeeder]

I'll be *really* suprised if the ES MR2's dont' get reclassed to GS based on nats this year. The new mini moving there makes things really interesting though.....

If the MR2 doesn't get moved then the miatas don't stand much of a chance IMO.

[altiain]

I'll be *really* suprised if the ES MR2's dont' get reclassed to GS based on nats this year. The new mini moving there makes things really interesting though.....

If the MR2 doesn't get moved then the miatas don't stand much of a chance IMO.

I seriously doubt that's going to happen - G Stock is not a two-seater, rwd, sports car class. The times may be similar, but the car types would be so vastly different the SEB and the BOD would never hear the end of the complaining. Heck, if that's the case, then E Stock and F Stock should be combined - similar times, and at least all of those cars drive the same wheels. But that will never happen.

I'd be more concerned about buying a '94-'97 for E Stock, only to watch C Stock and E Stock get recombined in the next couple of years (as the home for older, cheaper sports cars, and also to give all of the newer, faster cars at the top of the food chain another class to spread into), in which case your investment just went up in smoke.

Don't think it will happen? I'd be willing to bet that it will. With scratch times from E Stock and C Stock almost identical at most of the big events this year, and with the price of '99 Sports starting to dip below the cost of a good '93 MR2, it is only a matter of time (imho) before the SEB realizes that there is only room in the current Stock structure for one "cheap, older, low-powered sports car class". It just doesn't make sense to have two cheap, low-powered sports car classes.

Then again, dedicated pony car classes in Stock & SP don't make much sense either these days (with only the Mustang still in production), but there is a much more vocal and dedicated crowd of people willing to defend that particular white elephant. Still, I think that SEB's decision to leave the rally cars in ESP is the beginning of the end of the pony car classes.

[altiain]

As if to prove my point, Ron Bauer (one of the current SEB members) just posted this on the pointy board:

why only the 94-97?

why not all of the 1.8L?

Because the '99-up cars are already thought to be the car to have in CS. Why move them down?

A couple of years down the road when the new Miata comes out, maybe it will displace the M2s, but at this point, opening up CS doesn't really accomplish anything.

Ron

I guess I wouldn't count on having more than a year or two to play with your '94-'97s in E Stock before the '99+ Miatas get moved down and spoil the party.

[POS Racing]

So now that the change looks inevitable what do you kids think would now be the ultimate Miata for ES and why?

[altiain]

So now that the change looks inevitable what do you kids think would now be the ultimate Miata for ES and why?

A '99 Sport. It's proven competitive in C Stock right now (unlike the '94-'97 in E Stock ), and when it becomes obsolete for C Stock it will probably end up being the car to have in the new, re-combined E Stock.

[tailchaser]

Based on past performance of the SEB, I'm going to have to agree with altiain...

On the other hand, I had this really weird dream last night. You were there. And you were there, too, auntie Em! We were all racing Citroen 2CVs. <shudder>

[altiain]

By the way, if you wanted an aplicable answer (like which '94-'97 Miata to buy), I'd suggest reading this thread on SCCAforums.com.

The short answer at the moment? A '94R (stiffer rear springs than the '95-'97 R Package), with a new '96 Mazda crate motor. Yep, that's right - the '94-'95 Mazda engine part numbers have been superceded by the '96, which has higher compression pistons and slightly more horsepower. So it sounds like the big guns are already thinking that you're going to have to find a relatively rare car and buy a new crate motor (or at least new pistons) to be competitive.

It also sounds like it would be cheaper to buy a '99 Sport! :P

[onething]

It also sounds like it would be cheaper to buy a '99 Sport! :P

It also sounds like you are getting ready to sell yours :P

[altiain]

It also sounds like it would be cheaper to buy a '99 Sport! :P

It also sounds like you are getting ready to sell yours :P

Not a chance. I'll be buying something to take over daily driver duties next year, but the Sport will be with me for a while to come.

It just won't ever be going back to a dealer.