Lower my car

[Tim the Teacher]

How do I go about lowering my car without spending a fortune on performance parts that I probably don't need cuz I don't autocross?
Any suggestions on parts as well.

[rx7gslse]

only realy way to lower the car is with a set of springs..

those aren't *too* expensive... 150-200some for most setups..

It's a very subjective choice.. Ride height, spring rate (f & r) etc etc etc all play into the equation.

[fwMiata]

i have the tein s-tech springs and agx's. they lowered my 96 quite a bit and the ride is firm but not harsh, on the 1 setting on the shocks, 4 feels good but a bit bumpy. i think that the springs would be fine on stock shocks if you cant afford shocks too. but i woulnt reccommend it.
i havent autox'ed yet so i dont know how iit will perform. heck it hasnt even been aligned.

[Tim the Teacher]

I'm not into all that subjective stuff. So long as the car isn't too rough and I got it down about 1.5 inches. Any suggestions for brands and types of parts would be appreciated. :)

[fwMiata]

the teins are the softest replacement springs iirc. the fm and racing beat ones will hammer you, or i think they do...

[Tim the Teacher]

Is it possible to get 1 1/4" in the rear, 3/4" in the front out of the Teins or AGX?

[fwMiata]

the teins are supposed to drop it that much, but for some reason, my car was higher than normal, so it dropped it more. and agx's are the shocks, tehy wont lower it alone.

[Tim the Teacher]

Thanks for the info so far. So the Tein springs will work with stock shocks for a lowered appearence? I found they run anywhere from 119 to 150 on the net. Is that about right?

[altiain]

Tein manufactures both lowering springs and full coilover kits, while KYB makes shocks only (AGX). The AGX alone will not lower your car.

I know you're not into all that subjective stuff, but there are some things you should know about the Miata before you go and buy a set of cheap lowering springs for a purely aesthetic improvement.

First, the Miata's suspension design does not provide much travel (especially in the rear) at stock ride height. Lowering in excess of 1/2"-1" in the rear will mean that you will be riding on the factory bumpstops constantly. As in, all the time. This not only makes for an unpleasant ride, but can compromise your car's handling, instead of improving it.

Some people suggest cutting the stock bumpstops. I disagree with this practice, as the OEM bumpstops are progressive in nature, and the OEM suspension is tuned to use these bumpstops as a progressive rising rate helper spring under compression. Merely lopping off part of the OEM bumpstop to get the clearance you need for your el cheapo lowrider suspension screws this up, and means a very sharp rise in spring rate when the shock finally contacts the now shortened bumpstop under compression (and it will). This sharp rise in spring rate - especially at the rear, in mid corner, which is when the suspension is most likely to be at maximum compression - means snap oversteer. This is a very bad thing.

Secondly, the OEM non-Sport shocks are pretty marginal as it is. Any increase in spring rate will just wear them out that much faster, and since the general consensus is that the OEM non-Sport shocks are good for maybe 40,000-50,000 miles tops, increasing the spring rate just means you've hastened the rate at which the shocks will wear out and the car will bounce up and down like a pogo stick.

I've had a chance to drive Miatas with a number of different aftermarket lowering springs on the track and at autocrosses, and even when used in conjunction with decent shocks (like Konis or KYBs), I've yet to drive a setup that even handled as well as the stock pieces, let alone made any improvment. It may look better, but it certainly won't work better. If your car gets used to even 7/10ths of the limit, I'd skip the whole "lowering springs and aftermarket shocks" crap altogether.

If you truly want to lower the car without compromising the handling, I would suggest you look into complete coilover kits, such as the ones manufactured by Bilstein or Tein. My personal experience is with Tein products, which were - imho - of good quality, and offered proprietary bumpstops and shortened shock body lengths in order to preserve necessary suspension travel and bumpstop interaction even when lowered.

Yes, you will pay more for a decent set of coilovers (about $1k is a good starting point), but you get what you pay for. Skimping on suspension components - or even worse shopping for suspension components based merely on aesthetic concerns - will inevitably lead to a car that looks cool, but rides and handles much worse than a stock car.

[Tim the Teacher]

Much appreciated Altiain and everyone else who is helping a new owner through the learning "curves"

[Majik]

I have agx shocks and FM lowring springs. I dont have aftermarket sway bars. I would say some people have to agree the car works pretty well. For every day driving, with the shocks on 1 it is very smooth, not jumpy and it handles well.

[rx7gslse]

I know it's not quite as fancy as the Tien's or name brand full on coil overs, but what are your opinons on ground control kits? (when combined with an adqueate shock?)

Eric
-Who Eventually wil run Tein Flex on his car

[altiain]

My opinion on the GC coilover sleeves? Better than just a set of lowering springs, but not as good as a complete coilover kit. For the record, I had GC/Koni combinations in two previous cars ('98 Honda Prelude, '93 RX-7), and while they worked well, they were still a "cobbled together" solution, imho.

Unfortunately, unless you spend the money to have a set of off-the-shelf Konis shortened, the GC/Koni solution still doesn't solve the biggest problem with lowering a Miata - lack of suspension travel. Neither of the two cars I used the GC/Koni combo on had the minimal suspension travel of the Miata, and even then they were both lowered less than an inch over stock (since both cars suffered from bump steer problems with OEM suspension geometry if lowered excessively).

Unofrtunately, by the time you've spent the money to shorten the Konis and buy the GC sleeves, you've already spent more than it would have cost to do it the right way in the first place, imho.

[fwMiata]

i rarely hit the bumpstops on the back with the agx's, i did more on stock stuff. some of the spec cars are set down to the bump stops to be low, i havent heard of any issues with bump steer being problomatic yet. GC makes a kit with matched springrates for the agx's, and those coupled with the fm rear spring mounts shold yield a great return, for track stuff... not sure baout street.

[altiain]

i rarely hit the bumpstops on the back with the agx's, i did more on stock stuff. some of the spec cars are set down to the bump stops to be low, i havent heard of any issues with bump steer being problomatic yet. GC makes a kit with matched springrates for the agx's, and those coupled with the fm rear spring mounts shold yield a great return, for track stuff... not sure baout street.

Street cars and track cars are two entirely different things.

Don't get me wrong - I think that GC makes some great budget stuff that works well on the track (if you know what you're doing and can pick a good spring rate for what you're trying to accomplish and the shocks you're using). However, for a dual-use or primarily street driven car, I still feel that the complete coilover systems with matched springs, shocks and bumpstops offer a better combination of track capability and ride comfort.

BTW fwmiata - what's the typical unladen ride height on a Spec car, hub center to fender lip? Most of the Spec Miatas I've seen aren't that much lower than a stock '90-'93 Miata, specifically because of rear suspension travel concerns.

[fwMiata]

iirc we tend to put the front at 5-1/4 and the rear at 5-3/4 measured from the ground to the body behind the fornt and onfront of the rear wheels.

i think we are arguing the same point though. i dont know anyhting about the tein coilover kits. i do know where to get htem though