You wouldn't buy our sh1tty cars...

[sammm]

You can't kill a brand if you can't shut down the factory or lay off workers. The bloodsucking UAW strangles the American car companies. I blame that on both the UAW and to a lesser extent, the management.

I agree...no, really...

I agree with Titus that the unions are one of the main reasons why the Big-3 are in trouble. I grew up in the NE and I know what a PITA they can be. I also worked at a steel mill for a bit and saw the mentality first hand. I also saw that mill go bankrupt and wipe out the pensions of several thousand people who had worked there their whole lives. Union guys see high-wages and free medical coverage as a right, not a priviledge.

GM's pain is mostly self-inflicted. I don't think we as a country can afford to let them go away, but I don't know what the answer is. The majority of the change that could save them must come from within IMO.

[jrj512]

I agree...no, really...

Nope, I don't beleive you.

[amdman]

$15 billion bailout loan divided by about 300 million folks in the US equals about $50 per person. My household share of that would be $150, which isn't enough to stimulate me into buying a new car from one of the Big Three.

That was kinda my point. They aren't going to help a company by putting a bandaid on the issue. I don't see how this money is going to help them out, and worse yet how they can even think that this money will be paid back to the tax payers. Shoot they couldn't even make sure that the money that was being given to the banks was spent right, right after they got that money they went to high cost restraunts and were found using the money there and other places that had nothing to do with fixing the debt issues as it was ment to.

[Nexus Flux]

You can't kill a brand if you can't shut down the factory or lay off workers. ......

Yea you can, just don't give them the money. The car companies go bankrupt, the workers get laid off and leave the unions, the UAW goes away.


Then if the govt so chooses, it can give the big 3 start up capital loans to restart the companies and rehire the workers that want to work (sans union). Done, period, over.

[Walsted]

Yea you can, just don't give them the money. The car companies go bankrupt, the workers get laid off and leave the unions, the UAW goes away.

Then if the govt so chooses, it can give the big 3 start up capital loans to restart the companies and rehire the workers that want to work (sans union). Done, period, over.

I don't think the law allows companies to keep unions out, so if the Big three restarted with the same employees, my guess is that they would vote in the same unions. There is also at least one case where the government ruled that if you keep most of the same employees, the previous union contract is still valid. (That case involved a change in weather contractors at Wink airport, so it may not be applicable). So, it would be very important to make sure the previous contract was invalidated in the bankruptcy.

[gabkwong]

The UAW guys may be partly responsible for the low quality of cars, but keep in mind that they do not create bad or inferior designs, or stupid management structure and even more stupid product plans. Yes the UAW sucks a lot of blood off the the big 3. However, the bad managements are still responsible for the ships going down! They are paid to keep the ships off the rocks!

Another solution may be to fire all the managers in Detroit and hire a bunch guys from Japan to run the Big 3. Please keep Uncle Sam off unless you want the factories run like the Driver License Office! May be, just may, we can turn the table on the Japanese and we all waiting in line with cash in hands to get our next track cars from Detroit!!!

[icepenguin66]

lmao, nice Titus!

Interesting comments hear...
Yeah POS we get it that the Big 3 are not the only ones with sales drops; only one thing they are still making profit! Toyota makes more profit than the Big 3 combined! At least a couple yrs ago I read...

Yep, the UAW is evil and so is CAFE is another great idea that is horrible in execution. Combine that with resourses spread way too thin across to many models and variants of each model and the result is the sub-par overall quality products from the Big 3. Yeah, someone listed 7 or 8 suv's by Toyota/Lexus but they don't all have 4 to 8 different variations on engine options! There is no freaking logical reasoning for GM to offer 3 v6 engines, 3 4.6l v8's and a couple 5.7l v8's on their full size truck!?!!! That is a gross mis-use of resources. They only need one v6, one mid range engine and one big badass engine and save the money wasted on engineering and development for these varients that have only minor and stupid differences, like one having a canister oil filter and one having a cartridge filter!

Personally from driving customer's cars everyday and writing up repair estimates and work orders, the majority of major repairs are on domestic cars. And I get to see first hand the difference in quality over the brands and different years. My 90 Miata with 268k miles that's been beaten by Texas sun and many track days, has a nicer interior and has held up better than the top of the line GM cars that are half my car's age and mileage! Prime example would be a 02 Vette and a fully loaded DeVille (00 I think) both with around 100k miles. Neither car was aggressively abused or neglected but I was shocked at the poor condition of the interiors. While I'm very impressed with the better quality interiors from domestic car, especially GM, IMO our little NA Miatas still have a leg up on most of the new cars from the Big 3.

[jrj512]

The UAW guys may be partly responsible for the low quality of cars, but keep in mind that they do not create bad or inferior designs, or stupid management structure and even more stupid product plans.

Yes, they do, actually. By sapping so much money out GM, there is not enough profit from each car to invest as much into engineering. I doubt Honda would be turning the Accord and Civic every four years if they had to pay out as much to labor as the US companies do.

[Nexus Flux]

I don't know if you guys know about the Chrysler fiasco but this paints a pretty good picture


And here is the latest on the Big 3 Bailout

Also for your reading pleasure is the House version of the proposed bill

[SirHustlerEsq]

I am sure the UAW not helping them. Since the first oil embargo in the 70's, they have been promising cars that are fuel efficient and people will buy! It has been 30 some years, and they still singing the same song!

Giving them money is not the way to go. We should arrange some kind od marriage like...Toyota General, Nissan Ford or Red Flag Chrysler!

I heard some dude on the radio claim that manufacturing wages only make up 8% of the price of a car. lol I don't know that I believe that, but its not the typical statement.

[SirHustlerEsq]

I don't know if you guys know about the Chrysler fiasco but this paints a pretty good picture
[/URL]

ok, so it looks like I' using some frequent flier miles to get to the pentagon and burn a flag.

[sammm]

Interesting article...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/12/12/ame...rss_topstories