AutoWeek Dec 20th, 2004! MazdaSpeed6

[MadMerv]

Still, I can't help wondering how well this car is going to stack up against the new Subaru Legacy GT. It's got more power (on paper, at least), but it also weighs a lot more (like 400 pounds more), and has a less flexible AWD system.

It's a Mazda, more like an Acura RX........Most everyone is worried about the weight, but the weight distribution will be better than the Mazda6S with the V6, so it should drive more like the Mazda6I, which doesn't understeer nearly as much as the V6 with the extra 140# over the front axle. Mazda engineers know how to make their cars handle...we all know that

[ccage]

Just a thought...

I was reading in a car magazine recently (can't remember which) that for a long time there was an "unwritten agreement" between Japanese car manufacturers that they wouldn't publish stats of more than 276 hp. for standard street vehicles-- hence all the highpo Japanese cars out there with exactly 276 horsepower. The article was pointing out that Mitsubishi either broke this or was going to break it with the new Evo showing 300+. They said that the agreement was originally put in place to prevent a "hp war" in a country without roads to support it for the most part.

I wonder if this applies to the new MSP6? Is it just coincidental that it specs with EXACTLY 276 hp?

Chuck

[altiain]

Just a thought...

I was reading in a car magazine recently (can't remember which) that for a long time there was an "unwritten agreement" between Japanese car manufacturers that they wouldn't publish stats of more than 276 hp. for standard street vehicles-- hence all the highpo Japanese cars out there with exactly 276 horsepower. The article was pointing out that Mitsubishi either broke this or was going to break it with the new Evo showing 300+. They said that the agreement was originally put in place to prevent a "hp war" in a country without roads to support it for the most part.

I wonder if this applies to the new MSP6? Is it just coincidental that it specs with EXACTLY 276 hp?

Chuck

No, that agreement has stood for years, and carmags have been predicting who would be the first to "break out" of the agreement for a decade or so... but as of yet, no one has, technically. However, I find it interesting to note that the following cars all supposedly have 276 hp in Japan, even though there are no mechanical differences between the Japanese versions and the versions shipped elsewhere, and the versions shipped elsewhere claim to have more power:

'93-'98 Supra Turbo - 300 hp
'94+ 3000GT VR-4 - 320 hp
'02+ Nissan 350Z (Fairlady) - 287 hp
'94+ Acura NSX - 290 hp

There are plenty of others, but that's all I can remember off the top of my head. The point being that Japanese manufacturers have paid little more than lip service to the gentlemans' agreement for years, yet none have - as yet - actually come out of the closet about it. I wouldn't expect any to do so soon, either, as Japanese society places a much greater emphasis on the appearance of following rules and toeing the line than American society does.

[Treibenschnell]

From C&D -

"Since 1989, Japanese automakers have endorsed-at least on paper- a kind of gentlemen's agreement that limited their advertised horsepower to 276 on domestically produced vehicles. Their primary goal was to avoid a horsepower war in a country where the maximum speed limit is 62 mph. But in October, Honda officially broke the agreement at its Legend (Acura RL in the U.S.) press conference when it unveiled the model’s 300-hp, 3.5-liter V-6. For years, it’s been presumed that once an automaker stuck out its neck and ignored the 276-hp mark, the rest would quickly follow. And judging by what’s in the Japanese production pipeline, it looks as if the conventional wisdom was correct. Coming on the heels of that new Acura RL will be the Lexus RX400h 2ith an estimated 300 horsepower, and then the flood gates open-Mazda will introduce a 300-hp two seat RX-7, Acura will again cross the line with a new NSX with at least 400 horses, and Toyota will mark its territory with the supercar on page 36.

"Japanese engine designers, however, will readily concede that the country’s manufacturers have been building cars with more than 276 horsepower., It’s just that none of the automakers wanted to officially break the agreement. It’s no secret that Mitsubishi Lancer Evos, Subaru Impreza WRXs, and Nissan 300ZX twin-turbos have been in violation of the agreement for years, but at least in Japan, they all claimed to have 276 horsepower. The false advertising was ignores for the sake of harmony. Not anymore."

[ccage]

From C&D -

Yep, that's where I read it. Think this might be the case with the MS6?

Chuck

[MadMerv]

From C&D -

Yep, that's where I read it. Think this might be the case with the MS6?

Chuck

The "official" HP has now been set at 272, so I guess not.

[altiain]

The "official" HP has now been set at 272, so I guess not.

Them Mazda horses, or real horses?

[Treibenschnell]

Nothing a little chip reprogramming wouldn't cure!

[srivendel]

Nothing a little chip reprogramming wouldn't cure!

You obviously don't drive an MSM.

S.

[Titus]

Them Mazda horses, or real horses?

Pigmy ponies.

[Treibenschnell]

Nothing a little chip reprogramming wouldn't cure!

You obviously don't drive an MSM.

S.

Right you are, Ken! Bob, tell the man what he won!

[altiain]

Nothing a little chip reprogramming wouldn't cure!

You obviously don't drive an MSM.

S.

Right you are, Ken! Bob, tell the man what he won!

First place!

[Titus]

tell the man what he won!

A chip that's hard to mod?

[Treibenschnell]

Nothing a little chip reprogramming wouldn't cure!

You obviously don't drive an MSM.

S.

Right you are, Ken! Bob, tell the man what he won!

First place!

Is that for me... awhhh... first let me thank the little people....without you, this isn't possible. Next my agent, Marty. Love ya Marty! I could go on but the guy with the baton is staring at me...