Concerning street tire vs. race tire pax payouts - what does everyone think of having two separate pax classes? I think this would avoid the *problem* of figuring out how to modify the times in an effort to please everyone, which will never happen.
I think it comes down to the fact that the payout will be smaller. I'm not sure I agree, as the Ladies Rapid Pax always seems to pay well, and they have far fewer entries than a Tire pax would. BTW - why do we have a separate pax for ladies? Are their cars slower?? Not to start a whole separate issue here, but Kim W and Sharon E seem to kick my butt regularly...Originally Posted by danzo
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
Another thing to consider is marketing.
ER owns www.autocross.com, which is perhaps the most envied autocross domain name there is. How come I had to create www.dfwautocross.com in order to get a single listing of all the local autocrosses? That would have been an excellent use of www.autocross.com and generated a lot of traffic for your club's web site.
When was the last time you went to other clubs events to plug your events?
When was the last time that you created a thread for your next event on forums where autocrossers hang out, like here, Lonestar BMW's forum, for the NTS2KOC forum? You could offer to create a special class if they want to come out.
Could be workable but then there would be two distinct "pots" to be divided up: the regular PAX and the Tire PAX. Tire PAX wouldn't have near the amount of competitors so the payouts couldn't be anywhere near as deep I imagine. Remember that the payouts come from the fact the people are paying into that pot when they pay the additional PAX fee at registration.
The idea of PAX has arguable limitations as it is. Adding a seperate Tire class handicap into that somehow would be a farce. Trying to pick an additional handicap for any car running street tires no matter how that car is otherwise classed and lumping it back into the regular PAX can't be done with comparable and meaningful results. If it could be done there would be no need for a Tire class in the first place.
Last edited by Prova7; 05-18-2010 at 08:04 AM.
I am the Cookie Monster, not the macaroni monster.
I thought that was the definition of ken o??Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Except the problem with that is you will decrease the payouts in the existing PAX structure.
Here's a crazy idea - why not just do away with the Rapide PAX altogether? Just up the "regular" entry fee by $5 and give everyone six runs. Then everyone gets shafted equally. Spend the money saved on donuts or something.
Iain
"We don't stop playing because we grow old, we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm Donuts!!!!!!!!!!
I am a fan of this! I don't think that is a crazy idea at all. Maybe if they did away with Rapid PAX they could actually classes altogether.
I'll be at the ER event...doing some tuning befor Blythville.
Stuart F. Maxcy
STR 82
NC Miata
+1 ... I think 6 regular runs would be a huge plus for the club! Spend the extra money on some nice ribbons.
.
I don't think we have enough people in the tire class for a seprate PAX class. I also don't think we have enough for a seprate lady's class, but that another can of worms that I won't get into. For me adjusting the PAX for cars on street tires is more about giving them a fair chance to place well than getting them into the money, and I think more would come out if they think they have a chance. For it to be fair it has to be enough to give them a fair chance, changing it 1% would make no differance. I do think if you take the PAX and multiply it by .975 you would get a good number.
With the turn out ER has been getting we could do 6 regular runs and 2 pax runs, but we would have to do morning and afternoon runs groups to keep the heats from being to long for the course workers, with a lunch break, unless we get enough for 3 run groups then we would work 1 heat, run 1 heat, and rest in 1 heat. Most of the clubs ER complets aganst for drivers get 8 or more runs.
Funnel cakes would be more effective.
But then you are still penalizing those that do not want PAX by having to work eight runs, but only drive six runs. Everybody should drive the same number of trophy runs. If you want in on the PAX money, then you pay extra and your last two (or whatever) runs additionally count towards the PAX results.
I think that would kill the PAX class only the ones that can win money would sign up for it. You would end up with a class of 10 cars, then 5 cars when the slow 5 droped out.
I don't know if that's what would be best for the club but I would hate to see the PAX class go away, I always enjoyed it. I understand what you are saying and you make a good point. I am just not sure whats best for the club.
I never liked the PAX FEE at ER. If I paid it, I always felt like a sucker since I was on street tires. If I didn't, it seemed like I was missing out on the extra runs. And, when I paid, the last two runs were always my fastest, but counted for NOTHING.
I haven't run with ER much the last couple of years, but PAX isn't the reason.
Very curious - what is your main reason for not running ER lately?I haven't run with ER much the last couple of years, but PAX isn't the reason.
I haven't examined the results carefully, but having two pots based on whether or not you run r-comps seems more workable than trying to re-pax the pax. That would allow you to run in a stock class on street tires for trophies and still be in the running for pax (theoretically). No modification to the pax would be needed. Also, how about doing-away with the separate ladies rapid pax?
Street Tire Pot
"Tire" Class , Street Touring (ST, STS, STR, STX, STU)
R-comp Pot
Stock classes, SP, SM, FSAE, etc.
I think the Rapid Pax would not be in danger of dying-out so long as peopel feel like they can drive their way into the money. If it does die-out, then that speaks for itself. No matter what else is done, I hope the Rapid Pax becomes a buy-in option for the money only, not to buy extra runs. Every driver shoudl get the same number of runs if they are expected to work them, and they should all count towards the trophies. Let the money be a separate issue. This also eliminates the need for a 2-event registration online, since you'd simply run the results for all drivers' final 2 runs, then only pay-out to those who paid-in.
You might even increase participation in RP if people realize they would have won money had the bought-in, but didn't.
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
I'm curoius too. You can e-mail me at [email protected] if you don't want to spread discontent in public.I haven't run with ER much the last couple of years, but PAX isn't the reason.
I was going to advertise here on Monday but Jarrett beat me to the punch. I'll have to send him a fruit basket or something.When was the last time you went to other clubs events to plug your events?
Andy Cost
Humble Servant - Equipe Rapide
Ozmdd
The PAX for street touring classes is done for cars already on street tires so it is close to right. (as close as PAX gets). So the street tire pax class would be for cars in stock, SP, SM, M, and P running on street tires. No reason to break out the street touring classees from the R-Comp cars.
No fruit. Sweet breads.
60 posts and we haven't even had the event, or even determined where we will have breakfast.
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