Reply With QuoteYou have no idea how many donuts one can eat when they become free. :)Originally Posted by nomadtrash
Classic Donuts in Krum. Meet me there at 4:30 Sunday morning and I'll buy you as many donuts as you can eat.
Andy Cost
Humble Servant - Equipe Rapide
You have no idea how many donuts one can eat when they become free. :)
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
How about the TIME for this meeting?
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
Eat circa 6:30, biznatch circa 7. Really appreciate the interest, unfortunately I can't make it due to circumstances beyond my control.
Nothing against ER. I'm involved with SCCA and NTXAS. SCCA for the competition and NTXAS because they run on Saturday. That gives me more Sundays to go to church.
I've also been codriving for the last two seasons to save some money on tires.
Bottom line = Time & Money
I've got the same delimma. I don't like missing church.
Andy Cost
Humble Servant - Equipe Rapide
Since I have been an ER BOD member for years (up till last year) and I have run the computer before, during and after the event I have a few things to add. So here is my $1.02 worth.
While they are good ideas, what you aren't looking at is the administration side of doing any or all of what you are talking about.
From my understanding, the clubs that offer 8 runs limit the number of entrants. ER and SCCA don't, except SCCA does for the road course event.
To have everyone take 6 runs and then have the last 2 count towards PAX results is not automatic in Axware, so you are looking at a lot of manual data manipulation. And I believe it would delay the trophy presentation at the end of the event even longer. Few people stick around as it is. To separate the last 2 run times you have to have a different class designation, hence the "R", which adds the PAX multipliers. "T" is already a PAX multiplied class, so breaking it out and paying something to the top 3 entrants would be easy, if you used all 6 runs. The PAX payout is based on the number of entrants, the more that enter the more people get some money. I don't think the Ladies PAX has ever had more than 10 entrants so that payout is only top 3.
Now if you go the route of everyone gets 6 runs and if you pay in a little extra to get entered for PAX money, then you are looking at sorting thru the list and figuring out who paid and then what place they got. Thus another manual calculation at the end of the event, which you are trying to do while the clean up entrants want to load the trailer. I almost forgot the most important part, all these calculations have to be done AFTER you fix the times for people who ran the wrong number, didn't change their class, forgot to put the "T" or "R" on the car, etc…
On a side note, we have to go back and manually DSQ every run after the 3rd run in the "X" class in SCCA, since we only count the first 3 runs and this is usually done at the end of the event and finding these times takes a while because of how Axware works and allows modifications.
There is only a small handful of people who put on the event and get everything going, with some of them doing multiple duties. Volunteering to take on a responsibility, like timing or online registration, would definitely help. And it might actually get some of the ideas and/or changes implemented quicker. In my opinion running in class order only works properly with online registration and when everyone enters online, so you know how big the classes are going to be and you can even out the heats the night before. Doing that the morning of is doable, but is a lot of work to do in a short amount of time.
The PAX multiplier is another can of worms and even I have looked at different ways to add an additional .1 or so to an entrants next event (so his PAX becomes harder). It rarely changed the results and by the 4th event you will have an administrative nightmare trying to figure out what number each past winner of PAX was now running and what class he will be entered under (as you need to create a separate class with that PAX number just for him or you penalize everyone in his class as the PAX number is set by class) and then having the computer operator input the driver in the new class which probably wouldn't be on the car. As in, Mark M. would now be entered in the computer as RESP1 with his new PAX number. It just doesn't make sense to pursue it with little or no effect on the outcome.
Just don't forget, those who put on the events, with any of the clubs, want to run and have fun too. They just don't want to have to do everything, but sometimes they have to.
Thanks for reading, now where did I put that Donut?
SpinOutF500
'07 FM F500
I enjoy running ER events because I don't have to register online with AxchrashWare.
After attending the BOD meeting tonight (where my thoughts were listened to and discussed quite a bit), I think its fair to say that ER is trying to please a lot of different people, and trying pretty hard to do so. At the same time, there is a desire to stay true to the mission of ER over the years, which is providing high-level competition and and helping autox-ers to become better at their sport. There is definitely a desire to update some things mentioned in this thread, and also a resistance to reinventing the wheel.
I'd say the best way to change some things about ER is to show-up and run, then speak-up at meetings or send emails/letters; they will listen.
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
Nice points SpinOutF500.
Anyway, it looks like nice weather and it should be a fun event. I hope to see everyone there.
As a street tire guy, I think the best I ever got in PAX at an ER event was 24th. I always pay into Rapide PAX, so maybe I am just a chump. Sure it would be cool to walk away with money, but I like the extra runs and practice. I always seem to put more pressure on myself for the Rapide PAX runs which is good training for me. I like how ER runs their events SCCA style. I can't speak from experience, but whatever earnings i would get would likely go back into the car for modifications. And the simple fact is that I would still purchase/perform said modifications if I don't win money at ER. I realistic-ly know that I am not Mark Weber yet, and I stress YET. One day I will find some company (fingers crossed for Rockstar or Arizona Tea) to sponser my VW, so that I can live on my winnings. Till then, these are my two ideas for ER Rapide PAX...
Option #1 - Not serious (good for confidence)
Spice it up with real big checks instead of cash. It would be awesome to head into the bank with one of those. Or just save them up in the back seat ala Happy Gilmore.
Option #2 - Serious (good for Karma)
I thought it was awesome how people donated their earnings to Dennis last year. Could we make the Rapide PAX some sort of non-profit donation platform?
Maybe I should have just tried to stay out of this debate. Any who, I'm looking forward to running this event Sunday. See you guys out there. I know I will be trying extra hard to elevate the TGS GTI into the prize money.
An interesting point that was made - and I hadn't realized - is that there are generally less than 5 participants at any given ER event who do NOT pay in to RP, so almost no one is working more runs than they drive. That alleviated some of the "fairness" issue in my mind.
I agree. Depending on the number of participants, part of the money goes to ER, which makes substantial charitable donations every year, so running RP does aid in that goal, even if you don't win (like me.)Option #2 - Serious (good for Karma)
I thought it was awesome how people donated their earnings to Dennis last year. Could we make the Rapide PAX some sort of non-profit donation platform?
I wouldn't want it to get to a point where winners felt pressured into donating their winnings, but its a cool idea to make the option available. Maybe ER could make-up RP t-shirts to award for those who donate prize money? (REALLY cheap t-shirts!)
Polished Turd Racing
Mick wrote: "I think Jerrett is the best autocrosser I have ever seen naked."
I understand that when I pay my ten dollars for Rapide PAX, that while running on street tires I have a very slim chance of winning money.I accept that. I run Rapide PAX because I am willing to pay $5/run for 2 more runs. The 8 and 10 run clubs have very broad classing, a differant run format,
and no event trophies. I accept those differances. So just tell me where the ax is and I will be there.
Good info SpinOutF500, thanks for posting it.
I think the only club that has a cap on entries is the S2000 club, and I don't think we turned anybody away in the last year. In the past year I don't think ER has had a large enough turn out that we could not have done 8 runs at every event. For me it's not a big deal 6 or 8 runs, something to be said for getting it done in 4 runs, but when we try to get guys from other clubs to come to ER events that seems to be one of the reasons they don't come. The other is the classing most have mods that put them in SP or higher classes, but I would not want to change how ER does their classing.
+1
I'm not on street tires, but my lack of talent offsets my R-comps. In six years, I have never won any money. It seems that they wait to see that I finished 12th so they can pay to 11th. I kid, I kid.
I will continue to attend ER event.
On the track, I am fearless.
If you were as slow as me, you wouldn't be afraid either.
1994 M Edition
CSP 67
Based on my experience, 70 seems to be the cap for 8 runs, and even then, you had better start on time and not run into many issues.
Using 70 as a cap we had 2 events that had to many for 8 runs, event 5 had 201 (100) and event 6 had 159 (80), but most of them were close to the 70. At 3 events it would have been easy to do 8 runs. So maybe doing more than 6 is not realistic.
BTW, who is the event master?
Katelyn Johnson.
Andy Cost
Humble Servant - Equipe Rapide
I agree. Been paying the extra $10 for 12 seasons, now. Don't really care if I win money or not.
If ER set up a charity, I would gladly donate any Pax earnings to that fund.
What's left of a '96 Miata with stock clutch.
My car exceeds my driving ability. That's the only possible explanation.
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