Here's a few bad laps at MSR-H CCW

[MINI-P]

Wow, I started typing all Ebonic there for a moment.

[762]

When you consider the cost compared to seat time, auto-x is more expensive and again, I'm not trying to blow an entire day to run 4-laps. I get that you're trying to help, I'm just not going to pay $50 to rearrange cones all day. That's not fun for me. I've been to probably a dozen auto-x events, I'm not going to do it again.

I feel you are looking at the wrong metric to measure the value of autocross. If you go by seat time it is terrible, and no one should ever do it. The value of autocross is in the competition and the level of driver involvement over the 4-8 runs you get over the day. The amount of steering inputs in autocross and level of driver talent (especially in DFW) is so high that you must put the car right at ten tenths constantly. This happens in new situations every week or so, and when combined with an instructor you can learn so much in the high pressure environment.

I have been autocrossing seriously for just about 2 years with some sporadic events the year before that. However, having people like Ken O, Iain, Thomas, and David Whitener just to name a few constantly helping me, pushing me to get faster, I have developed an incredible amount as a driver. From their help I am now just tenths of a second off some of the best drivers in the nation, who all drive well developed cars on a monthly basis.

I have learned to switch from a FWD hatchback that changed its own gears to a RWD sports car, and then how to make it handle properly.

By focusing purely on "seat time" you miss out on the overwhelming benefits that autocross can provide.

[ken o]

When you consider the cost compared to seat time, auto-x is more expensive and again, I'm not trying to blow an entire day to run 4-laps. I get that you're trying to help, I'm just not going to pay $50 to rearrange cones all day. That's not fun for me. I've been to probably a dozen auto-x events, I'm not going to do it again.

BMW events are $35 and you get 8 runs.

What about running NASA TT in the morning sessions when it is the fastest and switch to HPDE with an instructor in the afternoon? I sure Dave would work with you. This way you still get to run TT and you get an instructor in the car.

[SirHustlerEsq]

By focusing purely on "seat time" you miss out on the overwhelming benefits that autocross can provide.

I'm more focused on standing out in the sun for 5-hours to pick-up people's cones. I'm not going to clear a day for 7-minutes of seat time. I know it does everything better and it's the most exciting racing in the world, but I have better things to do with my time...like watch paint dry.

[762]

Well if you can't afford an instructor on track, refuse to autocross with an instructor, refuse to let other people drive your car, and refuse to buy the tires your competition runs, what do you think is going to all of a sudden help make you a faster driver?

It seems like you are unwilling to put in the next level of commitment needed to move forward.

[SirHustlerEsq]

Well if you can't afford an instructor on track, refuse to autocross with an instructor, refuse to let other people drive your car, and refuse to buy the tires your competition runs, what do you think is going to all of a sudden help make you a faster driver?

It seems like you are unwilling to put in the next level of commitment needed to move forward.

I only refused to do Auto-x. I have fresh rubber and signing up as a novice with TDE in the fairly near future but no one will drive the car.

[miataspeedracer]

You don't need to go back to square one. You just need a qualified person/instructor to watch you drive and get you from square four to square five. I'm not that guy, but from watching the videos and reading your posts, I just think you are trying too hard to do too many things. Slow down your brain, slow down your hands, and faster times will come.

[MINI-P]

Not that you need another opinion, but...

I think you will be incredibly frustrated and be wasting your money driving in Green group with TDE. The first session is no helmets and no passing. They are more concerned with looking for flag stations and in your mirrors than with the line and actual driving technique. Blue group is better but all you'll be doing is waiting for a pass. Yellow is where people are typically driving fast and you get some good laps. You're fast already and in a fast car. Tell Rick when you sign up that you want an instructor and that's that. He may start you in Blue anyway until you prove you're not a danger to yourself or anyone else and then they will move you to Yellow very quickly.

[altiain]

Trey,

Come and run with Apex. Sign up in the Advanced Group and request an instructor. Be specific when you sign up about what your goals are (serious goals - you're not going to run a 1:19 at MSRC in your car unless it gets shot out of a cannon).

One of the great things about Apex besides the level of instructor quality and the small run groups (lots of time to spend working on technique, not traffic) is the fact that at least one Advanced driver per session is datalogged, and then that data is broken down in a classroom setting. If you ask for this specifically, I think it would be a great benefit to you.

Also, you need to get over your fear about letting someone else drive your car. If your car is that damn fragile than it probably shouldn't be on the track, and if you're that damn afraid of breaking it, that's where you're losing time.

[00MugenS2]

Not sure if this post is really needed, because its just saying the same thing that everyone else has been saying but,


I was the worst about not letting anyone drive my car. Even still, I DO NOT let anyone drive my car. It just makes me feel uneasy about the whole thing. Except when it comes to track and auto-x events. Now I dont just let anyone hop in, but there are a lot of really good drivers and instructors around here that are nice enough to share and help other people.

But I can tell you, that once I got the the point where I could handle pushing my car (where you are now), what gave me the best improvement was letting a better driver (mostly Thomas) drive my car while I data logged. Then I would compare everything. Lines, speed, acell/decel points, I would watch the vidoes and see what he would do different. Take full advanage of thier knowledge.

And while auto-x is the most boring thing on the planet, it is actually worth a day to learn something. A run might only be ~45 seconds, but you make so many inputs, so quickly that you learn more than you think.

[00MugenS2]

Another thought.... you could co-drive with someone in thier car.

[SirHustlerEsq]

Thanks Ian. I worry about others money-shifting it because I think I'm 0-4 with instructors grabbing the wrong gear. If the statistics weren't so strong and the trans didn't move so much when loaded-up, I wouldn't be so worried about it. God damn the power-plant-frame design, and lack of liability for stupid mistakes where the guest-driver walks and I'm stuck with ~$4k in damage and a tow-truck ride home. The last time this happened was when the instructor looped my car on a rain day, spun the engine backwards, the car wouldn't start, so he walked to the grid for the next student while I dealt with the car. That pretty much sealed the deal for me.