Miata vs Focus ST vs S2000 vs Civic SI

[Gator Bait]

^That's a sweet B&T!

PS
How about a Shoe?
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-bmw-m-coupe/

or a 911?
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1981-porsche-911-sc-2/

Gator Approved!!!

[Gator Bait]

Stupid facebook.

http://www.v8miata.net/cars-sale-4/f...t-ls3-na-2629/

It'll be on FM's site as soon as I get it cleaned up and pics taken. My driveway is 4wd only right now... :/

[sammm]

^Gator...just read about your wife. Best wishes to y'all.

[sxk122]

I'll chime in on the FoSt. Loved mine. Had zero real problems. The my ford touch computer stuff was a bit wonky, but they eventually got the bugs out. As far as resale, I felt like mine did just fine, drove it for 3 years and traded it in against my wife's new car. Park place gave me just under $9000 less for it than I'd paid originally-- to me that's not bad after driving it for 3 years and not spending s penny on maintenance. I really liked the car as a daily, it was always putting a grin in my face. My wife has passed comment that it was nicer in many ways than her new Mercedes.

[OZMDD]

Nice. That's good info. Definitely a good depreciation for a sports car.

[POS Racing]

^Gator...just read about your wife. Best wishes to y'all.

+1

[wrx74]

Is this a ploy to get out of installing those Polyurethane Bushings?

[sammm]

Is this a ploy to get out of installing those Polyurethane Bushings?

[altiain]

I've had my S2000 now for 4.5 years and over 50k miles. It's now 15 years old with ~125k total on it, and I still enjoy driving it. They aren't indestructible, but they are very solidly built. They were hand built on the same line that assembled the NSX, and it shows in the assembly quality. There isn't anything more fun to drive for anything close to the price.

I'm not a huge fan of FWD, so the Focus and Civic don't do it for me. The new Miata looks nice, but needs more powah (IMHO) and will depreciate like a rock. Also, don't be afraid to spend a little more for a nice, low mileage S2000 - unlike a new car, they aren't likely to depreciate much (or at all), so your cost of ownership is really dependent on parts and maintenance cost. This is where spending more for a lower mileage variant is worth it in the long run.

They're special cars, no one builds anything like them anymore, and the looks have held up very well (again, my opinion). If I had the garage space I'd be tempted to buy a lower mileage one to daily drive and turn my current one into a track rat.

[sammm]

Thanks Iain, and all. I'm weighing my options.

[gabkwong]

... Also, don't be afraid to spend a little more for a nice, low mileage S2000 - unlike a new car, they aren't likely to depreciate much (or at all), so your cost of ownership is really dependent on parts and maintenance cost. This is where spending more for a lower mileage variant is worth it in the long run.

They're special cars, no one builds anything like them anymore, and the looks have held up very well (again, my opinion). If I had the garage space I'd be tempted to buy a lower mileage one to daily drive and turn my current one into a track rat.

So ... with everything being equal, will you get the 2008+ cars or the 2006+ cars?

[OZMDD]

From what I have learned, "newer the better" on S2K's is always the ideal approach, as they continually updated and improved the cars throughout production. That can get expensive quickly, though. If money was no object, I'd buy the newest CR I could find. That said, MANY enthusiasts prefer the feel of the AP1 cars with a few updates, adn that is where the real bargains are found. If you are going to go AP2 and plan to do any tuning, get a 2006+, I am told.

[altiain]

There isn't anything special about the standard '08 or '09 cars versus any other '06+. The only difference is that the CR was available those two years.

S2000s fall into 4 basic groups:

'00-'03 (AP1) - the original and rawest version of the S2000. Faster steering (the CR actually has an AP1 steering rack), stiffer stock suspension, 16" wheels, 2.0l motor and 9k redline. These cars are similar to the Type R in that they were designed to have a very noticeable VTEC cam switchover, so they are very Jekyll and Hyde versus the later cars. Honda added slightly more creature comforts along the way (glass window top, leather covered center console, and tweeters in the doors in '02). In mid '02 the car got updated banjo bolts for better oil cooling of the pistons.

'04-'05 (AP2) - first of the 2nd gen cars. 2.2l engine, lower (8k) redline, same power, slight bump in torque to answer American demand (note that the rest of the world kept the 2.0l motor throughout the entire production run), revised transmission gearing and improved triple cone synchros. Softer suspension tuning. Slower steering rack. Interior was revised to slightly improve shoulder room. New front and rear fascia, new LED tail lights, revised headlights (all year S2000s have standard HID low beams). AP2 cars got revised valve spring retainers - AP1 retainers are prone to cracking, especially from an over rev. A dropped retainer can destroy a motor. This is a MUST DO retrofit to any AP1, IMHO.

'06+ (DBW AP2) - Switch to drive-by-wire brings a new ECU and opens up significant tuning potential. These cars can make significantly more midrange torque than earlier cars through a reflash (significant for an S2000, roughly 25 lb-ft), but top end power potential stays the same. Visually almost identical to '04-'05 AP2s.

'08-'09 CR - Club Racer edition. Unique front fascia and rear spoiler. No soft top, removable hard top only. Only S2k made with cloth seats (same seat design). Car has stiffest suspension tuning of any stock S2000, although '00-'01 had larger rear sway bars. Faster AP1 steering rack. Optional AC and radio delete. Same drivetrain as any other '06+ S2000. Slightly lighter than an AP1 with delete options, and the fastest stock S2000 you can buy.

That's pretty much it. There were no option packages or trim levels ever offered on the S2000 - they all come equipped exactly the same. All AP1 cars had the same 5-spoke, 16" wheels. AP2s had 3 different wheel designs, all 17" diameter, and all a good bolt-on upgrade to the AP1 cars. All S2000s have staggered wheel widths - 6.5"f and 8.0"r for AP1s and 7.0"f and 8.5"r for AP2s. Wheels are not interchangeable from front to rear due to different front and rear hub sizes.

That's all I got for now. Hope that helps.

[sammm]

^Great stuff Iain, thanks again.

[CosmosMpower]

Iain pretty much nailed it. If you get an AP1 I'd get 02-03 if you get AP2 get 06+. Make sure all the VIN tags match on all panels.

[BlackFiST]

I test drove all 3 multiple times and wound up with a Fiesta ST... If you are considering the FoST, give the FiST a chance... its so much more nimble and fun... Around town it did not feel slower either... Beyond that, despite it being a smaller car the cabin feels more open since the center console isn't all up ons and the visibility is much better... I actually liked the new GTI better than the FoST but I didn't feel like either of them were close to the FiST in terms of fun... I really had issues with buying a Fiesta but the car is so fun that I just don't care anymore (didn't bother to debadge like I had originally planned to).

The Civic Si has an amazing gearbox, its even better than the s2000's but beyond that its just not very fun to drive and like someone else said, they just refreshed the Civic so the Si could benefit from some improvements if you can wait.... I wouldn't hold my breath though because the last power bump was only 5 hp... The car has not been competitive in the sport compact segment for years! Anyway, its worth a test drive just to enjoy the gearbox.

The s2000 is one of the few cars that made me giggle when I test drove it... If you can deal with the tiny trunk and waiting to find the right car its probably the way to go because you can drive it around for a couple years and sell it for little to no loss... I would look for an 06 or later if you want traction control... there are aftermarket traction control modules for the earlier cars but based on my research you need HONDATA to use them... I might get flamed for wanting traction control but these cars can get sketchy so I did not want an 05 or earlier model as a daily driver

[BlackFiST]

Also, if you go s2k I would look into a set of seat locks because apparently, people like to steal the seats and they are very expensive to replace.

[sammm]

^Good stuff, thanks for the info.

[CosmosMpower]

Also, if you go s2k I would look into a set of seat locks because apparently, people like to steal the seats and they are very expensive to replace.

I think that was the fad about a decade ago when ricers were putting them in Civic hatchbacks. Not sure that's still going on frequently. I never got around to getting the seat locks and never had an issue.

[Gator Bait]

I might get flamed for wanting traction control but these cars can get sketchy

...Giggles...sketchy is life.