Roll Bars - What do you have? What do you want?

[black roadster]

I have a sport and I have NEVER been denied to a track event.

YMMV

[Kestrel]

From the 2004 PCA Club Racing Rules, Appendix A:

Minimum roll bar tubing sizes (over 1500 lbs): 1.75" x.120" wall (mild steel)

These are the rules used for open-topped car rollover safety requirements at all Porsche Club of America DEs. So, to answer your question, the Sport bar would not technically be legal for a PCA-sanctioned DE. If I'm not mistaken, the SCCA GCRs (General Competition Rules) use the same tubing requirements....

I see your point about PCA DEs (and I'm guessing AX and TT as well). The bar is clearly supposed to be 1.75" in diameter in order to pass tech.

But as for SCCA, from what I read in Fastrack (see "page" F64, top of the right-hand column) the minimum SCCA GCR diameter is 1.5" x.120" wall... the same as the Hard Dog Sport Bar (and all the others I mentioned). There are also requirements about the mounting plate thickness and number of bolts (see Appendix C, Section B, Items 3 and 4). And there is a support tube angle requirement as well (see Appendix C, Section D, Item 3), and a suggestion (but not a requirement) to have a diagonal brace. I'm assuming ( ) that the Sport Bar has the appropriate plate and bolts, and I know the Sport Bar has those supports. Now, those supports are bent (in order to accomodate the glass window on the NB/M2 I think), so then the question becomes does that bent support bar "legally" meet that 30degree angle bit. That might actually be the rub. Otherwise, I think the Hard Dog Sport Bar is SCCA GCR legal.

Now I'll be the first to admit I'm not up on all the rules, so I could definitely be missing something. And I realize that you are not likely to fail tech -- at least at a local level -- as long as you have a nice sturdy rollbar (not just a style bar) and your helmeted head is under the top of that bar. I'm just looking for the answer. That's why I keep asking you guys... who know better/more than me!

[altiain]

But as for SCCA, from what I read in Fastrack (see "page" F64, top of the right-hand column) the minimum SCCA GCR diameter is 1.5" x.120" wall... the same as the Hard Dog Sport Bar (and all the others I mentioned). There are also requirements about the mounting plate thickness and number of bolts (see Appendix C, Section B, Items 3 and 4). And there is a support tube angle requirement as well (see Appendix C, Section D, Item 3), and a suggestion (but not a requirement) to have a diagonal brace. I'm assuming ( ) that the Sport Bar has the appropriate plate and bolts, and I know the Sport Bar has those supports. Now, those supports are bent (in order to accomodate the glass window on the NB/M2 I think), so then the question becomes does that bent support bar "legally" meet that 30degree angle bit. That might actually be the rub. Otherwise, I think the Hard Dog Sport Bar is SCCA GCR legal.
[/color]

The SCCA has just "revamped" their website as of this morning. This link should actually get you to the Fastrack archive you've referenced (since I can't get your link to work).

In light of that Fastrack, it appears that the SCCA has changed their roll bar requirements. When I bought mine (before April of '03), the minimum acceptable OD for roll bar tubing for a car over 1500 pounds was 1.75". It appears that the Sport bar might indeed be legal now, although you'd have to get a clarification on whether the bent support tubes were legal.

I have a sport and I have NEVER been denied to a track event.

YMMV

droptop, that's why I made the comment that I'd never had a tech actually pull out a set of calipers and measure the diameter of my bar. It's also why I said that I'd be willing to bet that the Sport would pass any tech inspection, even if it doesn't meet the letter of PCA Club guidelines.

[Majik]

Thread summary: Kestrel wants to be like Majik....

[Titus]

Has anyone been allowed to participate in any Dallas area events with a HardDog Deuce? Has anyone been turned away?

[black roadster]

Has anyone been allowed to participate in any Dallas area events with a HardDog Deuce? Has anyone been turned away?

We don' haf nun uv dem new fangled bars down in da sowf!

[Titus]

We don' haf nun uv dem new fangled bars down in da sowf!

Guess I may have to be the guy to play dumb and try to get past inspection with it!

[tailchaser]

They let people play autocross with Frenzy TT's here, so a Deuce shouldn't be a problem.

[Titus]

They let people play autocross with Frenzy TT's here, so a Deuce shouldn't be a problem.

Great! I here some regions are very strick on SCCA compliant or nothing. People have been told that they need to remove them to compete.

[POS Racing]

Has anyone been allowed to participate in any Dallas area events with a HardDog Deuce? Has anyone been turned away?

What kind of event? What do you want to do? Many of the Autocross clubs don't even require roll bars as tailchaser mentioned.

[tailchaser]

Even though they "don't require roll bars," Texas region SCCA has been known to fail cars at tech because of unsafe roll structures. Normally, this is like being pulled over for no front license plate - it's a good excuse when you don't want to get in to the real problems.

As long as the roll structure doesn't look like it's installed with drywall screws, doesn't have any rust, and doesn't give the impression it could fly out of the car and hurt someone, I wouldn't expect problems.

Since the Deuce is obstensibly a roll bar, marketed as such, and designed as such (even if it is funny looking), I would not expect *any* problems with it in this area.

[Titus]

What kind of event? What do you want to do? Many of the Autocross clubs don't even require roll bars as tailchaser mentioned.

I am interested in trying out a few Autocross events and perhaps a club style track day. I attempted to get involved in this sort of thing here in Sacramento, but I was turned off by the “Holier then thou” attitude that I got from the organizer. For a guy that has never even seen a track, this is not what I was looking for. From the little time I have spent on this board, I get the feeling that I would be welcomed in despite my lack of experience or understanding of the terminology.

Todd

[Titus]

Since the Deuce is obstensibly a roll bar, marketed as such, and designed as such (even if it is funny looking), I would not expect *any* problems with it in this area.

Thanks Tailchaser. You are the first person that I have heard from that felt the Deuce was funny looking. I have heard plenty of comments about the Boss Frog being a little strange

[Flyin96M]

Let me add this about the Deuce. I was considering this bar until I saw a picture of a car with driver. The bar only cam up mid way on the helmet so I decided this was not the bar for me. I was told it was short, but man why even have a bar.

[altiain]

From the little time I have spent on this board, I get the feeling that I would be welcomed in despite my lack of experience or understanding of the terminology.

Todd

You certainly would be. The way I look at it, we were all newbies once, and if I'd had someone around to show me the ropes and help me out, it would have made the learning curve a lot shallower when I first started out in motorsports.

There are plenty of track events around here per season that wouldn't have any problem with the Deuce in your car, although they might insist you run top up (no comments please, Kestrel :P ). There are some that might have issue, but we'd be happy to steer you towards ones that would accept you (and your car) "as you are", so to speak.

As for autocrossing, the bar won't be a problem with any of our local clubs.

[altiain]

Let me add this about the Deuce. I was considering this bar until I saw a picture of a car with driver. The bar only cam up mid way on the helmet so I decided this was not the bar for me. I was told it was short, but man why even have a bar.

Bar height complaints sound kinda funny coming from someone who owns a Sport and not a Hard Core. :P

[POS Racing]

Let me add this about the Deuce. I was considering this bar until I saw a picture of a car with driver. The bar only cam up mid way on the helmet so I decided this was not the bar for me. I was told it was short, but man why even have a bar.

Bar height complaints sound kinda funny coming from someone who owns a Sport and not a Hard Core. :P

Well this doesn't look as tall as what Flyin96M has in his Car.


BTW. Nice Car Titus!

[Titus]

BTW. Nice Car Titus!

THANKS!

[altiain]

BTW. Nice Car Titus!

Indeed - that's a nice looking Sunburst!