US Grand Prix -

[Kestrel]

The tire rule had nothing to do with it. The failures that happened earlier in the weekend happened with less laps on the tires than would have been on them during a normal pit window. How is FIA to blame? Bridgestone brought some tires that worked. Sure seems like Michelins fault to me.

Interesting how different people's perspectives can be, as I think the FIA is mostly to blame for this fiasco...

Michelin is surely "at fault" for having tires that would fail. I mean, they've been in the business of making tires for fast cars for a long time -- they should have been able to handle Indy. But the real blame is not in what caused the problem, but how it was handled. Michelin made a bad mistake and chose to confess that they had built crap tires. At this point, you could do one of three things:

1. run the course and tires anyway,
2. slow the course down,
3. have the Michelin teams pull out of the race.

Choice #1 is crazy -- bordering on criminal -- as it clearly puts the drivers at risk. Choice #2 was proposed (adding a chicane) and rejected by the FIA. That left choice #3 as the only [sane] option.

Since the FIA rejected choice #2, they willing and with forethought (of malice) left the teams with two terrible options: Put their drivers at risk, or pull out of the race completely. The teams did what they had to do, and the fans suffered as a result.

What would have been so terrible about putting in the chicane? Yes, yes... it would have altered the course from the original design. Yes, yes... it would have meant team engineers would have to reset cars at the last minute. But this was a unique situation that called for a bold decision based on compassion (for the drivers) and consideration (for the fans). Fine the heck out of Michelin for coming to an event with sub-standard tires -- or ban them for the reminder of the season (and get to the spec tire that Bernie wants anyway). But don't dismantle the only F1 race in the US because you are too hard-headed to bend the rules just a little...

[Kestrel]

And so it begins...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ar_f1_michelin

There you go. The FIA is mad at the teams for pulling out, [apparently] preferring that the teams run with clearly faulty tires and definitely/willingly putting the drivers at risk. How is the FIA not the "bad guy" in all this?

[Titus]

Another good aftermath article.

[Kestrel]

And another one from Autoweek. Here's some of the article, which is making the point I was trying to make:

Ferrari was not keen on the chicane idea and you could understand that. Like Jordan and Minardi, the other Bridgestone runners, they suffered not the slightest tire problems in practice and failed to see why Michelin, having erred so badly, should be indulged.

Still, there was a greater issue at stake. After years of trying to sell itself to the United States consumers—potentially its biggest market—F1 had a collective responsibility to ensure its audience got what it had paid for: a race. And if, as a temporary salve, that had meant the installation of a chicane, all parties should have bitten the bullet. Like the man said, there comes a time when you have to set aside principle, and simply do what’s right.

<snip>

After the race, Schumacher talked about the weekend, and pointed the finger at Michelin. “We have left behind tires with better performance, but less durability,” he said, in reference to Bridgestone, “so, frankly, it’s nothing to do with us.”

Perhaps not. Undoubtedly, the root of the problem lay with Michelin. Its choice of compound for Indianapolis had been too marginal. But with a little goodwill, with some cooperation from a variety of sources, the problem could have been righted. As it was every suggested solution was rejected.

I don't blame Schumacher for his comments -- he's gotta quote the "company line" -- but the FIA could have done something better.

[tailchaser]

Apparently I was shortsighted... Looks like one suit covers George, Formula One, FIA , the teams and Michelin all at once...

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=8853684

Now... If George sues, F1, FIA, the teams, and Michelin, then Michelin sues, George, F1, the FIA, then the teams sue George, F1, the FIA and Ferrari, we should get 24 hour news coverage on Court TV for the "Greatest Spectacle on Earth!"

[icepenguin66]

The tire rule had nothing to do with it. The failures that happened earlier in the weekend happened with less laps on the tires than would have been on them during a normal pit window. How is FIA to blame? Bridgestone brought some tires that worked. Sure seems like Michelins fault to me.

No, because under last season's rules, they would have been able to put on new tires without taking any penalties.

[icepenguin66]

What would have been so terrible about putting in the chicane? Yes, yes... it would have altered the course from the original design. Yes, yes... it would have meant team engineers would have to reset cars at the last minute. But this was a unique situation that called for a bold decision based on compassion (for the drivers) and consideration (for the fans). Fine the heck out of Michelin for coming to an event with sub-standard tires -- or ban them for the reminder of the season (and get to the spec tire that Bernie wants anyway). But don't dismantle the only F1 race in the US because you are too hard-headed to bend the rules just a little...

Go read all of the articles on www.formula1.com Adding the chicane could have been as dangerous as the Michelin teams running on the bad tires.

[Kestrel]

Go read all of the articles on www.formula1.com Adding the chicane could have been as dangerous as the Michelin teams running on the bad tires.

Link me ice... I don't have time to search through that site to find the thread you are referring to. Everything I've read says the chicane was a real solution. All the teams -- except Ferrari (surprise, surprise) -- agreed that it was an acceptable solution. The FIA is standing on the rules... and killing F1 in the process.

I will admit/agree that the teams should have told the race stewards what they were going to do before lining up for the parade lap (see "grievance #5"). I don't have any problem with their decision -- it was the only sane decision left to the teams. But doing it without telling the race stewards before hand... well, it smacks of "showmanship"...

[tailchaser]

Uh-oh...

apologies to rudedog if he intended to share this here... I couldn't wait.

[sammm]

Uh-oh...

[icepenguin66]

Link me ice... I don't have time to search through that site to find the thread you are referring to. Everything I've read says the chicane was a real solution. All the teams -- except Ferrari (surprise, surprise) -- agreed that it was an acceptable solution. The FIA is standing on the rules... and killing F1 in the process.

I will admit/agree that the teams should have told the race stewards what they were going to do before lining up for the parade lap (see "grievance #5"). I don't have any problem with their decision -- it was the only sane decision left to the teams. But doing it without telling the race stewards before hand... well, it smacks of "showmanship"...

Here's one page that explains why the chicane would have been a bad idea:\
http://www.formula1.com/news/3209.html

There are several options FIA and the teams could have taken but both were too stubborn to compramise. Michelin admitted to screwing up and overnighted tyres from France but the teams were unable to use them because FIA's new tyre rule this year would subject them to a penalty, which is to be determined...could have been starting at back of grid, to a stop and go to being disqualified. So the teams didn't want to risk a penalty without knowing the extent of it, nor put the driver's at risk.

I don't see why they couldn't let all the teams put new tyres on and let the Bridgestone teams move to the front of the grid.

[Kestrel]

Thanks for that link. Gives a good view of another perspective. Teams blame FIA. FIA blames the teams. Courts will be busy for years. Fans lose no matter what.

I'd have to agree with your suggestion ice: Allow the teams to have run on new tires -- and penalize them if you want by making them all serve stop-n-go penalties and/or start at the back of the grid. Sure the top six places would probably have gone the way they did, but a "Michelin team" or two would have gotten points and [more importantly] the fans would have gotten a race.

Anyway, seems like everyone was too hard-headed to compromise, and that the only group in this fiasco that was honest was... Michelin! They confessed to the problem (although they say they don't know what was causing the problem, and can't replicate it in controlled testing), and agreed to fly in new tires ASAP.

[blackzx3_13]

http://web.bsu.edu/mrpeters/Stoddart_Interview.mp3

listen to this interview with paul stoddart about the race and its happenings.

[blackzx3_13]

crazy ^^^^

[Kestrel]

crazy ^^^^

Nope, not crazy. Well said...

[onething]

I still think it is all on the tire manufacturer. Too bad most of the cars picked a tire manufacturer that dropped the ball.

Here's the course and here are our rules. Want to race?

What was the problem?


If I show up at ER next Sunday and go to Tech and my tires, brakes, etc. won't pass, will you guys change the rules?

I can't go as fast as most of you. Will you change the course so I can keep up?

If Stoddart is right about the points, then the system stinks. They should have fixed that before the race, or gone somewhere else to play. I guarantee if only 6 cars show up for the rest of the season, FIA will be forced to do something different.


IMHO, the biggest problem in the world is people not taking responsiblity for their actions.

[icepenguin66]

[color=navy]I'd have to agree with your suggestion ice: Allow the teams to have run on new tires -- and penalize them if you want by making them all serve stop-n-go penalties and/or start at the back of the grid. Sure the top six places would probably have gone the way they did, but a "Michelin team" or two would have gotten points and [more importantly] the fans would have gotten a race.

Tell me about it. Drove 1000 miles and spent $600 for nothing!