SCCA #5 7/17/05

[Ataim]

John - We (S2000) put on just as many runs than SCCA and still finish up by 3-3:30 with a 1 hour lunch break. I bring this up only because I've heard this thrown around a few times now.

S2000 Event
55 Entries x 8 Runs = 440 Runs + 40 Fun Runs = 480 Total Runs

SCCA July 17 Event
167 Entries x 3 Runs = 501 Total Runs

The difference there is 20 runs, 4 more hours, and numerous delays. That's why so many of us have been to very few SCCA events this year. Good people, good competition, just too much time for too little.

Also don't forget that at MW the course is twice as long as it is at Penington

[Kestrel]

I will take issue with the numerous delays comment. At Sunday's event the only real delay was the FSAE car that lost a wheel and that was cleared in a couple of minutes. Yes there were some reruns, but I attribute that to course design and its consequences.

I agree with you JStankus... delays at this year's events -- including last Sunday's -- have not been not nearly as problematic as they were in past years. I'm telling ya folks, the current leaders of the SCCA have really stepped up their game! In my opinion, the SCCA events are running on par with (or maybe even slightly better than) Equipe Rapide events. I'll say it again: if you haven't given them a try this year, you don't know what you are missing.

There's no denying the bang-for-the-buck that you get at an NTS2KOC event, and the casual atmosphere is really very nice. Competition is keen, but it's not the primary thing at those events. That's why my AX schedule includes SCCA, ER and NTS2KOC events*. I go to the SCCA and ER events for the serious competition (again, not just with the Miatas, but against all the cars using PAX indexing), and I go to the NTS2KOC autocrosses for a lot of seat time and a ton of fun. Neither is inherently "better" than the other, they just offer something a little different.

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* Having said that NTS2KOC events are on my schedule, I have yet to make one this year...

[Majik]

Another advantage S2k seems to have is corner working. Almost everyone there has experience. The quality of work is much better, leading quite a bit fewer reruns. I dont know how many times at an SCCA event, there are down cones that cause reruns, and it is all because there were a couple of newbies at a corner. This isnt really anyones fault, just something else the takes more time at SCCA events, and not S2k. That being said, now that I am working at a different job, I have made all of the events held by both clubs.

[srivendel]

That being said, now that I am working at a different job, I have made all of the events held by both clubs.

You're definitely the resident cone whore.

S.

[sammm]

You're definitely the resident cone whore.

You're half right.

[srivendel]

You're half right.

S.

[JStankus]

Another advantage S2k seems to have is corner working. Almost everyone there has experience. The quality of work is much better, leading quite a bit fewer reruns. I dont know how many times at an SCCA event, there are down cones that cause reruns, and it is all because there were a couple of newbies at a corner.

Any ideas on how we can improve this? IMHO, I think we are doing better with Matt Lucas doing the corner work description, rather than me rambling on. There has got to be more we can do to improve in this department. This is probably course design dependent as well.

Regards

John

Edit- fixed quote

[sammm]

Any ideas on how we can improve this?

Insist the guy with the radio/flag at each corner has experience. I was at an event last year at Pennington when the radio/flag guy was sitting under the trees. I guess it's also up to the experienced guys to watch for downed cones, etc. and dispatch the newbies as necessary.

[Darron65]

You're definitely the resident cone whore.

He didn't touch any cones! I was impressed by his restraint.

[altiain]

Insist the guy with the radio/flag at each corner has experience. I was at an event last year at Pennington when the radio/flag guy was sitting under the trees. I guess it's also up to the experienced guys to watch for downed cones, etc. and dispatch the newbies as necessary.

This is probably a good idea. There ought to be a "director" at each corner, someone with experience (especially with experience at making worthwhile radio calls), who can handle the radio, the flag, and direct the other corner workers. That doesn't mean that the "director" won't get to shag a few cones as well, but it does mean that we'll (hopefully) have someone with some experience directing the show at every corner in every heat.

[blackzx3_13]

I believe the corner workers should be more spread out, most of them tend to seperate, but IMHO they should be spread out more, to cover the course better. I also like the idea of an experienced "director" at each corner station.

[POS Racing]

I believe the corner workers should be more spread out, most of them tend to separate, but IMHO they should be spread out more, to cover the course better. I also like the idea of an experienced "director" at each corner station.

If you have an experienced director spreading out wouldn't be an issue. Your always going to run across the guys who want to chat the heat away and in some cases you can get away with it, but in the rare occasion you can’t it’s time to spread out.

On last week’s event the only evil corner was corner 4 when they had the slalom, since the course design didn’t allow for any breaks in the action for the course workers to clear the course, I know I had to stop for a course worker who was still in the slalom when I got there.

The SCCA is doing a much better job this year than they did last year!

Saturday’s course while fun was scheduled on the wrong event, since it was know in advance that Dr. Bob was bringing 40 of his closest SAE buddies. Hopefully the have learned from this and will continue to improve!

BTW. OZCop what was up with you extremely loud CRX

Hey notice how if we gripe about a SCCA event Stankus makes a guest appearance and throws in his state of the nation blurbs, good times good times!!

[Majik]

Any ideas on how we can improve this? IMHO, I think we are doing better with Matt Lucas doing the corner work description, rather than me rambling on. There has got to be more we can do to improve in this department. This is probably course design dependent as well.

Regards

John

Edit- fixed quote

I think people just dont understand the circumstances. I know adding more info to the drivers meeting isnt a great thing to do, as it all sort of blends together. Maybe during the novice walk through, explain the down and out rule, and the expectations of a corner worker. Let them know they aren't just peons, but a very important part of the event as a whole. Other than that, like others said, have someone with some experience at each corner. Make people aware that the radio person does have this experience, and as long as they dont abuse the power they should be listened to. However, I and a few others here witnesed a very experienced corner worker miss three or four down cones at the Bus Lot event. He had to be yelled at from across the lot to make him aware of the cones.

[Kestrel]

Any ideas on how we can improve this?

• Additional talk/instruction during the Drivers Meeting is almost completely useless, since nobody (and I'm as guilty as the next person) is listening. So don't bother talking longer at the Drivers Meeting. But make sure to clearly say the words "When working a corner, spread out so that you don't have to run so far to reset a cone". A couple of times.
• As already mentioned, the person with the radio/flag needs to be an experienced autocrosser, and should be told he/she is responsible for directing the actions of the corner workers. This is difficult to determine, but not impossible.
• Control needs to... take control. Remind the corners a couple of times during the heat to spread out. Also, if Control notices a lot of re-runs coming in a particular corner, he/she should ask someone to check that corner out and report back any problems.
• Make a work assignment "Heat Worker Director" for a few people. These folks -- one or two per heat -- would DEFINITELY be experienced autocrossers, and would spend the heat observing each corner and each worker, and making... corrections... when needed. I know the Worker Chief is primarily responsible for this, but he can't be everywhere at once. Anyway the Heat Worker Director needs a radio, so they can radio back to Control / Safety / Worker Chief if help is required. Now, they don't have to be just "policemen"... they can also call for water or report bad radios, or whatever...

In the end, it's "volunteers" doing this work, so it's never going to be perfect. But having a strong, knowledgeable person with the radio and someone kinda overseeing the entire heat's "flow" will help.

[JStankus]

[list][*]Make a work assignment "Heat Worker Director" for a few people. These folks -- one or two per heat -- would DEFINITELY be experienced autocrossers, and would spend the heat observing each corner and each worker, and making... corrections... when needed. I know the Worker Chief is primarily responsible for this, but he can't be everywhere at once. Anyway the Heat Worker Director needs a radio, so they can radio back to Control / Safety / Worker Chief if help is required. Now, they don't have to be just "policemen"... they can also call for water or report bad radios, or whatever...

I was thinking on the same lines. Something on the order of Course Marshall, to circulate amongst the corners and troubleshoot issues.


Any volunteers?


Regards

John

[JStankus]

Hey notice how if we gripe about a SCCA event Stankus makes a guest appearance and throws in his state of the nation blurbs, good times good times!!

It's really pretty simple... If I don't know what the issues and concerns are, it's a bit more difficult to address them. I probably need to get some input from the general solo list Phil A. set up as well.

Regards

John

[Kestrel]

It's really pretty simple... If I don't know what the issues and concerns are, it's a bit more difficult to address them.

Don't miss POS's point... all he's saying is we'd like to see you around the forum more often, not when we're discussing SCCA challenges. At least that's what I think his point is...

[POS Racing]

I was thinking on the same lines. Something on the order of Course Marshall, to circulate amongst the corners and troubleshoot issues.


Any volunteers?


Regards

John

Wouldn't that be a good thing for the Safety Stewarts to handle since a bad corner worker could be a safety issue???

[Kestrel]

Something on the order of Course Marshall, to circulate amongst the corners and troubleshoot issues.

I actually think this is a perfect job for altiain and POS, as they love telling people what to do! Kidding aside, they are both seasoned autocrossers, and neither is shy...

[srivendel]

[list]Remind the corners a couple of times during the heat to spread out.

That way you can bake all alone in the hot sun, rather than enjoying the comraderie of your fellow corner workers.

It's a sensible idea, but people are naturally going to congregate together. And when the heats are 2.5-3 hours long, you can't expect people not to seek one anothers' company.

S.