Comparing Hybrids

[Sharpie]

My worst fuel cnsumption rate was 38 MPG and that was mainly stop and go city driving. The best was 53 MPG going pure highway to San Antonio with a tale wind. Generally though, I averaged 42 MPG.


Still kinda wished I had gotten the RX-8.

Wow, I have a 97' CX hatch. My last two tanks have been 39.5 and 37.1mpg.

It's got 168k miles and it paid for, so I think it's a better option than my friends 35k 6cyl Accord Hybrid getting about the same mileage.

[POS Racing]

Still kinda wished I had gotten the RX-8.

Yea if you want a vehicle with great fuel efficency you can't loose with an RX8!

LOL!!!

[TurboDuane]

None of the current hybrids on the market make financial sense. None.

Nor is there much of an environmental reason to choose a hybrid over an LEV-II, SULEV, or ULEV car, when you realize the extra environmental costs associated with the manufacture and eventual recycling of those hybrid battery packs.

I've done the math from time to time on hybrids, and I guess it's time to revisit that math to prove my point. I'll use the Accord as an example, comparing the hybrid Accord to both the 4-cylinder EX and the V6 EX models (both automatic):

Hybrid Accord

• Mileage: 25/34 city/highway (assume 29.5 mpg average for 50% city, 50% highway driving for the purpose of this illustration)
• Price: $30,990 MSRP

Accord EX 4 cylinder auto

• Mileage: 24/34 city/highway (29 mpg average)
• Price: $22,450 MSRP

Accord EX V6 auto

• Mileage: 20/29 city/highway (24.5 mpg average)
• Price: $27,300 MSRP

Test assumptions

• Annual miles driven: 15,000 miles per year
• Average fuel cost: $3.00 per gallon

Okay, I'll start with the most obvious comparo first, the 4cyl Accord versus the hybrid Accord. Assuming 15,000 miles per year @ $3.00 per gallon for cost, the annual fuel cost of the 4cyl Accord is $1551.72. The annual fuel cost for the hybrid Accord is $1525.42. The difference in MSRP between the two models is $8540. At that rate of gas savings, it would take you 324.7 YEARS to recoup the difference in MSRP. Or 4.87 million miles, whichever came first.

At $4.00/gallon, it takes a little less time... only 243.5 years, or 3.65 million miles.

At $5.00/gallon, we'll get there even faster - 194.8 years, or a mere 2.92 million miles. You great-great-great-great-great-great grandkids might finally benefit financially from your wise choice to buy hybrid.

Now, how about the hybrid versus the V6 Accord? After all, the V6 Accord is more expensive, and gets worse fuel economy, which should make the hybrid more competitive, right? Well, yes... but it still doesn't make it a great choice. Here are the numbers for the hybrid vs. V6 matchup:

At $3.00/gallon, you can recoup the additional MSRP of the hybrid in 177,797 miles, or 11.9 years. Hey, you might actually live long enough to see the benefit of this choice. But do you tend to keep cars this long?

At $4.00/gallon, the breakeven point is 133,347 miles, or 8.9 years. At $5.00/gallon, the breakeven point is 106,678 miles, or 7.1 years.

Keep in mind that the above calculations are based on fuel costs and MSRP only. The purchase price of the vehicle, the maintenance costs of the vehicle (think a complex hybrid and the associated hardware - inculding the battery pack - will be as cheap to own and maintain as a conventional car over 100,000+ miles?), and any tax incentives for hybrids are not taken into account in the above calculations.

So what have we learned? If fuel economy and saving money is your highest priority, the 4cyl Accord is a no-brainer. Not only does it get similar mileage ot the hybrid Accord, but it costs a lot less. Enough less that you'd never be able to justify stepping "up" to a hybrid Accord on potential fuel savings cost alone.

The decision to buy a hybrid over a V6 Accord is a little murkier. At current gas prices, you'd have to own and drive that Hybrid for a long time (177,797 miles) before you broke even. That's assuming the hybrid doesn't cost you any more to own. That's not a gamble I'd be willing to make, considering the finite lifespan of those rechargeable battery packs and their replacement cost. Oh, and one thing the greenies won't tell you? Over their lifetime those battery packs - just like the ones in your cordless razor or drill - will weaken. Guess what happens to your hybridized fuel economy as the batteries get weaker? That's right, it gets worse.

The only way that a hybrid Accord makes financial sense if if you're willing to keep the car long term, and you're also willing to bet on much higher gas prices on average during the ownership duration. Even then, you have to be willing to bet that the additional maintenance and ownership costs of the hybrid don't erode that margin over 100,000+ miles.

Good luck with that.

Thanks Iain for the time to evaluate this. I think the Accord Hybrid is a gimmic. However, If I were to go Hybrid, I'd probably wait for the Camry to start arriving. It gets an advertised 40 city & 38 hwy. mpg. Vs. 24/33 on the comp 4cyl Camry and is only $1500 more. So using the average between the city and hwy mpg and gas at $3.05/gallon: The Hybrid would cost $.078 per mile, vs the 4 cyl would cost $.107 per mile, leaving a 51,724 miles to recoup the extra purchase cost.

However at $4.00/gal: Hybrid cost $.103 per mile vs 4cyl at $.14 per mile, so it only takes $40540 miles to re-coup the extra purchase price.

Now when I consider my wife is about to start driving at least 100 miles per day, back and forth to Dallas, it will only take her 23 months to offset the cost, based just on commuting miles. This only makes me want the Camry even more.

But If I look at it another way, the 4cyl Accord, loaded the way I want it, has an MSRP of $25,500, and I've been quoted at $23,000. Basicly its loaded with Leather, wood trim, sunroof and all the little goodies. To get a comp. Camry Hybrid is $ 29,500, (no discount available) thus a $6,500 difference, which would take $325k miles @3.05/gal. and 162k miles at $4.00/gal.

Well thats it. ...Screw the Hybrid...Ya happy SAM! I did the math!




Thanks all, I just needed to put this down in writing to figure this out.

[Radio-Active]

Yea if you want a vehicle with great fuel efficency you can't loose with an RX8!

LOL!!!

Well, someone got my gest.

BTW, My civic hybrid was suposed to get 48 & 47 MPG. I rarely saw those numbers. If you research owners comments, most everyone agrees that EPA & Real life don't come close.

As for the Honda battery, it is only 120 standard D-cell NiMH batteries. I also read one guy on a forum telling that his economy didn't change when the hybrid system failed. The power for get-up was the thing thay was lacking.

[POS Racing]

Now when I consider my wife is about to start driving at least 100 miles per day, back and forth to Dallas, it will only take her 23 months to offset the cost, based just on commuting miles. This only makes me want the Camry even more.

Sounds like a job for a VW Diesel with an extended warranty!

[pliablemoose]

Sounds like a job for a VW Diesel with an extended warranty!

Bought my ex wife a TDI Golf, (my 3rd diesel VW) I strongly encourage you to consider the extended warranty, I would not buy one without it after the 02' Golf.

[TurboDuane]

Bought my ex wife a TDI Golf, (my 3rd diesel VW) I strongly encourage you to consider the extended warranty, I would not buy one without it after the 02' Golf.

Nope, not gonna do it. Everyone I know has trouble with those vw's.

[POS Racing]

Well what did ya end up getting TD??

[TurboDuane]

Well what did ya end up getting TD??

I've been shopping. Working on the best deal, but it's between the Mazda-6, Accord, and the Camry. My wife isn't keen on the Mazda-6 and it gets the worst gas milage of the three.

We both like the Accord a lot, but the body style has been out for a number of years, and I'm not sure when they plan to introduce the new body. I hate making payments on a new car when it already looks like an older model, so now we're leaning on the '07 Camry.

But as I returned from a 1 week vacation, I learned my new job has been eliminated along with 24 others, and effective tomorrow I'm jobless. So, I'll wait to see what the future brings me.

[altiain]

We both like the Accord a lot, but the body style has been out for a number of years, and I'm not sure when they plan to introduce the new body. I hate making payments on a new car when it already looks like an older model, so now we're leaning on the '07 Camry.

Current body was introduced in '03. Heavily refreshed for '06 (new front and rear fascias, trim changes, etc). Expect about 3 years out of the refresh before an all new design. Truth be told, in the mid-sized sedan market nothing is going to be the fresh new model for more than three years, so I wouldn't let that sway me from buying the Accord. Besides, the refreshed Accord is still a nicer drive (and better looking) than the all new Camry.

But as I returned from a 1 week vacation, I learned my new job has been eliminated along with 24 others, and effective tomorrow I'm jobless. So, I'll wait to see what the future brings me.

Sorry to hear that, Duane. That just means it's time to move onto something bigger and better.

[TurboDuane]

I haven't looked real close at an 03 vs 06 Accord, however I don't see the differences in them? Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to the earlier models.

[Titus]

I haven't looked real close at an 03 vs 06 Accord, however I don't see the differences in them? Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to the earlier models.

2003:


2006: