Stirring the pot

**Kestrel** · 08-26-2004, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by POS Racing

"The PCA does Track Events, DE's and TT’s, which no other car club does in this area of the world. They do way more than just autocross like the other clubs you listed. I'm sure the PCA national office packaged the entire deal together when they got insurance package. "

That's a very good point, and one I hadn't considered. You are probably right that they found it easier to just have one set of rules for all their events to keep things simple and consistent. Helps in negotiating their insurance policy (fewer exceptions to right into the policy). And it probably helps with tech -- one set of rules for all cars participating in performance events.

POS 1
Kestrel 0

Still a dumb rule... :P

**brock** · 08-26-2004, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by sammm

Originally Posted by redmenace

Am I the only one who finds it confusing as hell when a thread is amputated and the disembodied limb becomes its own topic?

Yes you are.

That's kinda the idea. This post had nothing to do with the post it was amputated from and stands on its own.

Has someone been hanging out on the pointy board too long?

**joe.MIATA** · 08-27-2004, 08:13 AM

Just for background info, I posed this 'top-up' rule question to James Shoffit (PCA Mav Region) last night. It seems they are as tired of this as we are.
Here is his response: (Note: no response to this topic is necessary...)

Ugh. Don't get me started :)

I think (personally, not officially of course) it is one of the silliest rules
ever foisted upon us. But alas, I am neither the Autocross or Time Trial
chair, nor am I the local President, or any of the other advisers that all
seem to think it is the safe thing to do.

Most people think it is probably safer to have the top closed if you roll.
Others disagree. Who is right ? I have no idea. I just know that I
have never seen a convertible roll at an autocross (our time trials are
essentially just high-speed autocrosses). Is it POSSIBLE to roll a
convertible at an autocross? Of course, anything is possible if you
work hard enough at it! We had a guy roll a WRX a few years back,
and he had to work his butt off to flip it. You shoulda seen it.

Anyway, the national DE committee decided two years ago that tops
needed to be closed for non-arm-restrained open-top cars for PCA
driver's education events. This got pretty much forced onto the regions.
It was NOT an insurance decision, but a liability decision. And for
SOME reason, even though we have no national-level committee for
autocross, we (PCA local or national, I am not sure which) decided it
would be fantastic if the rules were the same for both events. So now
we have to run top-closed at autocrosses and time trials too.

As for me, I quit autocrossing my convertible (not because of that, but
because my convertible was an understeering pig of a car that couldn't
make autocross turns without a 3-pointer and a tug boat involved).

So sorry you have to put up with that. If you want to lodge a protest,
you probably won't get very far. They sure quit listening to me :)

James

**EvilSpeeder** · 08-27-2004, 08:51 AM

Do we have to hear this diatribe again?

C'mon, guys - the rules are the rules. If you don't want to participate because you disagree with a rule... then don't. But quit s****ing on everyone else's parade.

Did you read what I wrote? I said I didn't like it because it doesn't make sense, but I'm still going. How am I shitting on anyones parade? If you're going to get your panties in a bunch over stuff like this perhaps you need to go back to anger management class. If you don't like what the thread is about, you don't have to read it.

Can somebody explain when the description "gay" became the defacto motorhead diatribe against whatever the poster wants to whine about?

I see this crap on motorcycle sites all the time. I'm sorta surprised to see it on a car site. Frankly, it pisses me off.

Sorry, it's the vernacular of my generation I guess. I don't think it has anything at all to do with being a 'motorhead'. I didn't mean to offend anyone. But seriously. This is the INTERNET. If you get pissed off because of the way I (or anyone else) talk, don't read it. And what makes you think that the people on motorcycle sites are ANY different than the people on car sites? Narrowminded stereotypes......

**altiain** · 08-27-2004, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by EvilSpeeder

Do we have to hear this diatribe again?

C'mon, guys - the rules are the rules. If you don't want to participate because you disagree with a rule... then don't. But quit s****ing on everyone else's parade.

Did you read what I wrote? I said I didn't like it because it doesn't make sense, but I'm still going. How am I s****ing on anyones parade? If you're going to get your panties in a bunch over stuff like this perhaps you need to go back to anger management class. If you don't like what the thread is about, you don't have to read it.

Did you look closely at what I quoted?

I'm not complaining about your diatribe. There is a reason that TC threatened to brand you Kestrel for bringing this subject up... again.

See you in anger management class? :P

**OUTRACE** · 08-27-2004, 11:12 AM

[quote="EvilSpeeder"]

Narrowminded stereotypes......

Strangely, I think my original complaint was about a narrowminded stereotype that has become 'the vernacular of your generation'.

I realize that the expression is in common use almost everywhere. I also realize that very few of its users ever recognize that the negative use of ANY group's name is eventually going to offend.

Let's change your original comment to something like: that's so black, that's so Mexican, that's so white, that's so fatgirl, that's so old, that's so asian, or that's so Celica.

Somebody somewhere at some time is going to be married to an old overweight mulato who loves her Celica and whose gay son dates a black guy. The speaker is going to unintentionally piss off a prospective customer or friend. It costs everyone.

Now I'm not angry at YOU per se, because your use wasn't intended to be offensive. And I'm not trying to be the PC police here.....I'm merely trying to point out that thoughtless use of this sort of language is problematic and offensive. After all, the word gay was being used as a descriptive term for something negative.

When it comes down to it, now that we understand one another, I'm cool if you're cool.

**EvilSpeeder** · 08-27-2004, 01:11 PM

Fair enough. I'm cool.

But 'gay' used to mean 'happy'. Maybe I think it is a dumb rule, but maybe dumb rules make me happy!

**OUTRACE** · 08-27-2004, 02:24 PM

So you're sayin' the top rule makes you happy?

I think we can say "It's chickenshit!" without offending too many chickens.

**POS Racing** · 08-27-2004, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by OUTRACE

So you're sayin' the top rule makes you happy?

I think we can say "It's chickenshit!" without offending too many chickens.