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FI is still way far off for me. However, I thought I'd ask the turbo and SC people on this board: if you could start over today, would the people with SC's keep their SC or would they go with a turbo; would the people with turbos keep their turbo or go with a SC? And why?
I'd like to try turbo just to try it but I really enjoy my M45 even with the low boost and powercard piggy back ECU it's a very enjoyable and streetable car to drive. It would be a hard car for me honestly.
Don't own a FI Miata but having owned various FI cars I like turbo better. Way more potential for power, ability to change boost without messing with a stupid pulley change but it does run hotter. Currently have 2 DI turbo cars and 1 s/c car, they are all fun.
Neither. LS swap.
If I had to completely start over, I would go LS swap as well. With all the money I've spent on various kits, just to rip it all out and do it all over again multiple times, I'm in about as much as what I've been seeing complete swaps add up to. Selling the crap kits and parts recouped money, but eh.
If my only choices were turbo again or supercharger, turbo hands down.
I *would* like to get the wifey a Miata and throw a small SC on there, but there's no way I would pick that for my personal car over a turbo.
I love the instant torque of my supercharger and can't see ever trading it for a Turbo. Now an LS swap... that is another story!
An LS swap cost quite a bit more than your basic SC or turbo setup thought right? Several thousands more and quite a bit more work to do?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixAce
I concur!!! I picked up my Miata in the first place just to do a Ls swap...I sold my 2001 z28 camaro and picked the Miata up...u can do a Ls swap for way less than alot of guys do...for instance..u can use the 5.3ltr out of the trucks and put the fast 92mm intake manifold off the cars and a nice small cam with headers and intake and tune and make about 390 to 400rwhp..with a t56 6 speed...i can get 5.3 full Pullouts very cheap so with buying the full eng I'll be about 5k in my full swap when done...And u can always
Upgrade to ls6 down the line after u work all the bugs out cuz all the parts off the 5.3 are
Interchangeable with the ls6
Once you figure in things like ECU, wide-band, gauges, clutch, exhaust, etc, a nice Turbo or Supercharger setup is going to run you around $6k-8k. An LS swap is going to run you between $12k and $20k depending on if you go salvage or buy everything new. Then you consider you can sell off your old drivetrain, so the gap gets a little closer. The LS swap is 10x the work.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonieGT
Not to shoot myself in the foot on this one, but if/when my Pathfinder motor dies, we need to talk :) I can't put swapping an LS into that out of my mind, but I won't even consider it till I need a new motor...which hopefully won't be for a very very long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigsrturbo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob®
Done rob!!!
Finish ur car rob so u can come play...we have another guy Travis that's been coming that makes around 240rwhp turbo Na..and he does pretty good..
Getting there. Now my car nights are wifey's car nights. All her parts are at the house, we're back from vacation, and once her car is done it's all about knocking mine out. I got over perfection for the time being, I want running.
She still wants to sell it and buy a Miata though. So the SC thing still might work out...anyone want a 2006 Chevy Cobalt? Brand new AC parts (every last damn piece of the system) ;)
This is lowest boost I can make on this spring:
http://i55.tinypic.com/2nb9jdl.jpg
It drives like a truck below 4000rpm, above that it pulls like a V8. The difference between what I've done with my car and 90% of the cars in this area is the attention to detail. I have the best parts money can buy, I have every part money can buy, and I will argue to the death that I have the best tune of any car in the world. It never makes the "woosh" turbo feeling like you think of when you see a T88 Supra on a dyno. I've spent the time tuning the car properly, respecting things like drivability, and it's great.
[QUOTE=CosmosMpower;245036Way more potential for power, ability to change boost without messing with a stupid pulley change but it does run hotter..[/QUOTE]
Does it? My EGT's are sub 1600*f. Every NA car I've seen also has a 15xx*f EGT. I've "raced" my car in 103*f heat, chasing a Panoz, tucked behind him, and never went north of 199*f on the water temp. I made an NA Miatas header glow orange last weekend on the dyno. No plastic parts melt in my car, the hood isn't burnt, and I can drive it in traffic.
The SBC swap sounds great for a street car, you still get a 200lb penalty and "soft" rear hubs that like to tragically fail at the track. I still haven't seen a V8 Miata other than John Roberts put a beating on us 250whp guys, and he has aero.
The moral of the story is that you can stroll down to TDR and get a reliable track car with a blower bolted on and be one of the many with 5+ years of great reliability. If you want the path to glory which I've taken, your best bet is ARTech in Wylie and get all the hot and cold side parts built for the same price, then do the rest yourself.
I had two turbo kits, because I could not get a "no electronics" MP62 for my 1991 w/ the '99 swap. The first turbo kit lasted about 3-laps, the current one wasn't much more expensive than the first, and it's the most gorgeous, over-engineered hunk of stainless steel you've seen in your life.
If you want examples of what I'd consider the "best paths to glory," you should look at tehJeffman's car and mine...sixAce will join this crew after I get MS on his car. Our cars are basically copies of each other on the dyno and track times, yet with different power-plants.
Sorta depends on what you want as an end result. Under 200HP, I'd stick with my little M45 all day long and never look elsewhere. At 200-240 HP, You'll gets lots of arguments from both camps as to the better route to take. Above 250-ish HP, I think turbos have the edge. Seems 200HP is the magical number above which things start getting pretty spendy in terms of ancillary bits and pieces required.
If you want an LS motor--buy a Vette. That's where it belongs.
Or a Chevy truck....Quote:
Originally Posted by miataspeedracer
It sounded like you were just being cocky...then when you mentioned "MS" I knew that was the punchline to a rather long joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
There was a thread on this exact topic on miata.net. There were disciples of both camps but many more people had gone turbo from super than had gone super from turbo.
Like any question about "what's the best FI solution," it depends on how you intend to use it and what your requirements are. If you haven't put your toe in the water, it's pretty hard to make an educated determination of what you "require" / want. That's why it's a good idea to get a ride in a few different varieties so you can make that call.
Would have build the supercharge set up i have now, would have just done a built motor first, hate having to remove boost and back down the power to keep stock rods intact.
This is the one I've got my eye on. Dan, are you going to go with a BOV like Jeff's setup or keep the dummy throttle body? You're still running a stock '94 bottom end, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
Well, tricky, if/when you ever get the urge to drop a V8 into your ride, you're already a good bit of the way there. Just pull the parts from the 7, get a subframe from V8R...then you just have to work with the rear, prop shaft and electronics. Done.
He needs to get a MS3 and let me and Trey work our magic.Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyrix
Got it...
Here's my $0.02...
If you want max power and/or love drag racing then turbo is the way to go. If you love road racing or want the car to be reliable and still very streetable the supercharger is the way to go. Personally I would never do the LS swap or the 5.0 swap. If I wanted a v8 muscle car and mess up the perfect handling and sports car soul of the Miata then I would just go by another Camaro Z28 and do exhaust, cam etc like the one I sold before getting my 1st Miata!
Now a 20b swap, now that I'm down for!
Nah. Supercharging for dummies here. 99 motor swap w/forged rods-pistons. Basic stuff while I work on that weak flex joint between the pedals and steering wheel.Quote:
Originally Posted by trickyrix
I think that urge is pretty much gone now. But I keep telling myself that one of these days I'll get the RX-5.0 wrapped up and running... one of these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by juxt3r
Things have changed since the early Monster Miata days. A V8 in no way "messes up" the handling of a Miata, except that you *can* induce wheelspin or power oversteer if you so choose. You can do that with a big enough super or turbo too. They just don't sound as good. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by icepenguin66
To be sure, it's a very different car than a stock Miata, sort of in the way that an AC Cobra was different from an AC Ace, and that was generally thought to be a good thing. Not everybody's cup of tea, but an outstanding cup nonetheless.
Erase the vision of a GT42-88 Supra dyno pull from your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by icepenguin66
I'll argue that. V8's sound great and all, but the turbo noise makes me smile every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwisenheimer
The hair drier miata is one sexy sound.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwisenheimer
And it burps fire. Seriously. Don't underestimate that intimidation factor...Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man
lol yeah I know what you mean with the Supra! I wasn't talking about turbo lag. Keith Verges at MSR has done so many damn mods to keep his turbo SM from cracking manifolds, overheating, heatsoak, etc. He's even cut holes out of the front bumper for extra air intake!!! Just saying, so far from what I've seen its easier for the $$$ to get max hp from a turbo set up than a supercharger. OTOH, supercharger is more reliable and better for road racing in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr brg
Well, the screaming screws make me smile everytime!
rotflmao @ jeff_man's comment!!!
My turbo car has been pretty reliable and I ducted the radiator and bought a real manifold so I don't have the reliability problems. Most people don't understand Young's Modulus and for that reason turbocharged Miatas get a bad rep. I have a lot of respect for Keith's driving, but he's racing a car with really old, bad technology. In the last two years turbo Miatas have come around to the quality level previously reserved for the Supra and Honda roadracing class.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff_man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZykD6BUjbQQuote:
Originally Posted by icepenguin66
Very nice Jeff!