Music Royalty

[trickyrix]

Speaking of Foo Fighters, I wasn't a huge fan at first... but their big double album "In Your Honor" made me come around on them. That, and their kick-ass cover of Gerry Rafferty's "Baker Street" put them on my must-see-live list. They've definitely got something...

And, yes, Trent Reznor at least needs a place in the Alt King's Court. I just bought a new copy of "Pretty Hate Machine" and it still sounds fresh...

[cwisenheimer]

Aretha! Yeah. What was I thinking?

She's already the Queen of Soul. I'm not sure Queen of R&B has the same ring to it.

Went to go look for history and found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honorif..._popular_music Maybe some of you guys should go modify the page.

[OZMDD]

Grohl WAS the real talent behind Nirvana, IMHO.

Reznor is fantastic and ground-breaking, but I'm not sure I give him the title.

Tupac is/was/always will be crap.

Dr. Dre/Snoop rate pretty high for me, both in their individual work and their influence on the genre. Personally, MosDef is my fav, but not really the king.

Not sure where he fits, but Prince should be the King of something. Talent, hooks, innovation, the package.

Queen of Alt Rock: PJ Harvey is really the queen, but not enough people know her. I might have to suggest Amy Lee, even though that's past my era, she's the voice of a generation of modern alt. Beth Gibbons is my own personal favorite, but is that even alt rock?? Needs its own category.

Queen of R&B: Anita Baker
Honorable Mention: Erykah Badu, Toni Braxton, Christina Aguilera

King of R&B: Marvin Gaye.

King of Blues: Robert Johnson (we really even need to discuss this? BB King is cool, but please.)

I actually have the hardest time with the alt rock category. The longer I think, the harder it gets.

[trickyrix]

The more I think about it, the more I think this needs to be discussed over beers and cheezburgers...

[cwisenheimer]

The more I think about it, the more I think this needs to be discussed over beers and cheezburgers...

At a place with music.

BTW, any SRV fans out there?

[trickyrix]

BTW, any SRV fans out there?

Well, hell yeah! Duh!

[cwisenheimer]

Then you really, really, REALLY owe it to yourself to make it a point to go see Tommy Katona with Voodoo Blue. He's been studying and practicing Stevie and blues guitar since he was 4 or 5 and it shows. He is truly, literally amazing. He can play SRV note for note, nuance, bend, speed, tone, whatever. You can't see Stevie anymore, but Tommy is the next best thing. And he's local (for now)! He's also incredibly friendly and humble, just wants to play and help others know and enjoy the blues. He can also play BB King, Albert King, Jimmi Hendrix, Buddy Guy, Clapton, etc. as well as his own music.

Just go. You will thank me. You can find them at www.voodooblue.net.

[boisking]

As much as I am embarrassed to say this in public, John Mayer does a very good SRV. I was reluctantly dragged to a JM concert by my wife, and pleasantly surprised by the encore. She wanted to leave early, but I was interested for the first time all night. Initially, I hadn't considered SRV for blues, partly because his sound is in a world of its own and partly because Texas blues should be its own category.

I think an elderly B.B. King playing Lucille on a diabetes commercial helps his case against Hooker for popular acceptance. It is funny I am saying this, since I actually prefer to listen to Hooker.

Reznor is surely a strong candidate for alt rock. Like above, I personally prefer listening to Reznor, but I feel like Grohl will ultimately stay in the game longer and draw more strangers to his music (and genre - to which he is pretty loyal). In contrast, Reznor fans are more of a niche group than a popular group. Only time will tell.

Hip Hop and rap are hard to differentiate. Sure, there are crowds that try to draw a line, but I lump them together. Tupac was not really as powerful as an artist as he was as a martyr, IMHO. Imagine a gangsta-rapper that was a five-year fad but drifted out of the picture: 50Cent. If he had been slain in a gangland shooting at the height of his publicity, he could have been a martyr, too.

King of Metal: Ozzy. I prefer Led Zepplin, but that is a collaborative effort.

R&B: Aretha is probably queen, but Gloria Gaynor has a place on the honorable mentions list.

Reggae: Bob Marley sits on the high throne.

Progressive genre-busters: I vote for David Albarn (that guy from Blur and Gorillaz, et al.). You could try to single out a member from Radiohead or Pink Floyd, but the collaborative groups negate the monarchy of a King/Queen.

Godfather of Lounge singing: Frank Sinatra.

[Jiggerachi]

As much as I am embarrassed to say this in public, John Mayer does a very good SRV.

I've got your back on this one. I had a bunch of John Mayer's bootleg live albums before I knew who he was, I was a huge fan before heard his studio albums. I realized quickly he was all about softy chick music. But make no mistake, he plays a mean Stevie, and Hendrix as well.

Somewhere floating around he has a cover of 'Wind Cries Mary'. It's really really awfully good, pretty much sums it up.

Edit: here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oPyB...eature=related


Some random thoughts...

Reznor should take king of industrial rock. I think he fits with Bo's criteria(which was very well thought out BTW). He pioneered the industrial genre and was about the only one in mainstream aside from Marilyn Manson. I wouldn't give MM king just on principle.

SRV deserves king of his genre, but I agree, he doesn't fit into blues. Texas blues maybe.

I know he didn't have a long career, but I can't believe nobody mentioned Hendrix yet.

The more I think on this, the more i'm not sure you could name any modern kings/queens save for a select few already mentioned, since there have been so many sub-genres, spin-off, and merged genres. There'd be hundreds of them. There are definitely a lot of truly innovative artists, but not many Elvis's in my opinion.

[cwisenheimer]

Mayer is good, yes, but can you go see him live twice a month for 5 or 10 bucks, shake his hand, and talk over a beer or two with him? I'm not taking away from the greats that have been mentioned, just saying "go see Tommy." Until you get the chance, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vk7RmR9sngo

[Rob®]

Tupac was not really as powerful as an artist as he was as a martyr, IMHO. Imagine a gangsta-rapper that was a five-year fad but drifted out of the picture: 50Cent. If he had been slain in a gangland shooting at the height of his publicity, he could have been a martyr, too.

What are you talking about? All Tupac did for censorship and all that, and you call him a fad? Incredible. He practically put rap into the mainstream himself (granted it was the whole east/west coast thing, but you can't deny it was almost all centered around him). Then he surprised the hell out of people with his acting.

50cent was a fad, and should be no where near mentioned in trying to claim a king of the genre. Or a martyr.

[Titus]

I grew up in the bay area and was very into rap from the mid-80's to about '93. I saw Tupac perform live with Digital Underground twice (in 90/91). Was not impressed. He also did not have a very good reputation on his home turf in those early days. I recall an underground tape with him on it back then where he seemed to be copying Too Short.

[altiain]

What are you talking about? All Tupac did for censorship and all that, and you call him a fad? Incredible. He practically put rap into the mainstream himself (granted it was the whole east/west coast thing, but you can't deny it was almost all centered around him). Then he surprised the hell out of people with his acting.

NWA, Dre, and Snoop Dog had already brought gangsta rap into the mainstream long before Tupac became popular. Hell, I was a white suburban kid who grew up clubbing in Ellum and even I owed a Snoop Dog CD.

BTW, no love for the Beastie Boys? They may be white, but they're still one of the best selling rap acts of all time, they saw mainstream success before most of today's young flash-in-the-pan rappers were even born, and this year they'll be inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. Not only that, but they're a metric sh!t ton more creative than all of the auto-tuned thug life idiots out there today.

[Rob®]

BTW, no love for the Beastie Boys? They may be white, but they're still one of the best selling rap acts of all time, they saw mainstream success before most of today's young flash-in-the-pan rappers were even born, and this year they'll be inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. Not only that, but they're a metric sh!t ton more creative than all of the auto-tuned thug life idiots out there today.

Agreed. But they're a group. If you considered the group as a single entity, I would very easily agree (thought the idea was to avoid considering groups). They made the transition from hardcore punk to rap and still continued to influence a ton of people and groups. And how long have they been unbelievably famous? Over 20 years already.

[gofastlookslow]

What are you talking about? All Tupac did for censorship and all that, and you call him a fad? Incredible. He practically put rap into the mainstream himself (granted it was the whole east/west coast thing, but you can't deny it was almost all centered around him). Then he surprised the hell out of people with his acting.

50cent was a fad, and should be no where near mentioned in trying to claim a king of the genre. Or a martyr.

As much as I like 2Pac, I personally think rap went mainstream with NWA. If we're talking about censorship then I think NWA and 2 Live Crew should have those honors. I grew up on the east coast and I got into liking rap when I heard NWA. I knew of Dr Dre and Snoop Dog before I really knew much about 2Pac. Nothing against 2Pac but saying that he put rap mainstream is a bit of an exaggeration IMO... nothing against your opinion though.

[Titus]

NWA, Dre, and Snoop Dog had already brought gangsta rap into the mainstream long before Tupac became popular. Hell, I was a white suburban kid who grew up clubbing in Ellum and even I owed a Snoop Dog CD.

BTW, no love for the Beastie Boys? They may be white, but they're still one of the best selling rap acts of all time, they saw mainstream success before most of today's young flash-in-the-pan rappers were even born, and this year they'll be inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. Not only that, but they're a metric sh!t ton more creative than all of the auto-tuned thug life idiots out there today.

I would add LL Cool J, Grandmaster Flash, Ice-T, KRS-One, and Chuck D to the conversation. Top rap group of all time discussions need to include Run DMC, NWA, the Beastie Boys, and Public Enemy, with honorable mentions to EPMD, BDP, and De La Soul.

[Rob®]

NWA, Dre, and Snoop Dog had already brought gangsta rap into the mainstream long before Tupac became popular.

And Dre and Snoop to this day still say how shocked they were about the influence he had on everyone. I would even agree that Dre had more influence overall, but not from his music: mostly from his producing and marketing. So that negates him from being a king of a music genre to me. And Snoop, if it was still the mid-late-90s, I'd consider - he did cross genres and toned down the gangsta rap along the way, while still keeping a very large fan base and influencing people. But the second he started making music that's worse than most of the crap that comes out today, no.

[OZMDD]

Beastie Boys are amazing, but not in the discussion for King, any more than the Beatles are. Too group-oriented.

[boisking]

What are you talking about? All Tupac did for censorship and all that, and you call him a fad? Incredible. He practically put rap into the mainstream himself (granted it was the whole east/west coast thing, but you can't deny it was almost all centered around him). Then he surprised the hell out of people with his acting.

50cent was a fad, and should be no where near mentioned in trying to claim a king of the genre. Or a martyr.

Ludacris surprised the hell out of people with his acting. Mos Def surprised the hell out of people with his acting. Neither are a king. I never tried to suggest 50cent as a king. I actually consider him to be very low on the list. Not JaRule low, but low enough that I could use him as an example of a rapper that is not King-worthy. I'm just saying that the circumstances and timing of Tupac's death blew his "influence" out of proportion with reality.

NWA, Dre, and Snoop Dog had already brought gangsta rap into the mainstream long before Tupac became popular. Hell, I was a white suburban kid who grew up clubbing in Ellum and even I owned a Snoop Dog CD.

BTW, no love for the Beastie Boys? They may be white, but they're still one of the best selling rap acts of all time, they saw mainstream success before most of today's young flash-in-the-pan rappers were even born, and this year they'll be inducted into the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. Not only that, but they're a metric sh!t ton more creative than all of the auto-tuned thug life idiots out there today.

Agree.

Agreed. But they're a group. If you considered the group as a single entity, I would very easily agree (thought the idea was to avoid considering groups). They made the transition from hardcore punk to rap and still continued to influence a ton of people and groups. And how long have they been unbelievably famous? Over 20 years already.

Exactly. See my previous post about Ozzy vs. Led Zepplin (or even Metallica, for that matter) as king of metal.

After the debate has been going, I seem to think that Snoop is moving closer to the throne. Long career, continued influence, attracting new listeners to the genre, public image... He has a strong case.