ER autox on Sept 7th (if you're going to nationals please read)

[Mark52]

I’m not a member of ER this year, but am a Nationals competitor. Not looking for an argument, just stating my opinion

If people want to run the bus lot because it is closer than MW, that is one thing and ER needs to factor that into their annual schedule and fee structure.

But, I do not support going to the bus lot as some kind of Nationals practice or having to pay more for these reasons:

1. The surface of the bus lot sucks and is not fun to run on.

2. In my opinion, the grip is not similar to Nats. The grip of the Topeka surface is very dependant on what time of day or day of week you run. So, saying the bus lot is good practice assumes you run first two days, and/or first couple of heats. No way to know that for several more weeks. And then, it would only be “similar” for a small number of locals who may go.

3. Those who don’t go to Nationals would go to a lousy surface and pay more to “subsidize” those who go to Nationals. I don’t think that is right.

4. If you wanted to really get Nats practice, why didn’t you go to Topeka this last weekend and run the two day event?

5. If you want a lot of bus lot practice, run the Divisional Friday practice, and the Divisional and the SCCA Aug 31 event.

6. If you want time on the Topeka surface, go to the Nats practice the Sunday before. That is the real surface, again subject to #2.

Well said, nealb.

[Kestrel]

Nope, I'm not going to get into the battle...

[miata_racer]

As far as GGP goes down here, everyone pays about 30% more than the SCCA. Even PCA.,....which is run by most of the same folks :)

I prefer Pennington over the bus lot personally. And MW. I guess I'm back to not liking the bus lot again lol :)

Brad, first I want to let you know that I'm trying really hard to write this in a way that avoids getting into any more conflict with you. I saw this post last night but decided to sleep on it and cool off before I wrote a response. That said the way I and others have read your post insinuates that I'm lying and that ER is out to rip people off. Perhaps you did not think through what people would imply. Or perhaps you think I am just grossly misinformed. Either way let's bury this hatchet now. Us getting into an argument on a public forum isn't going to help anyone.

Yes the normal rental cost of the bus lot IS pretty close to $1500 more than Pennington field. To make things work this time we've made some special arrangements with TMS to get a better deal. So this time we're not paying that much but it still is close to $1000 more. Maybe SCCA gets a better rate than ER...

You are correct that not every event has to be a big money maker. But $5 more would only bring in an additional $300 (worst case scenario). Maybe you think ER has a lot larger turnout. This year there have been many events in the 60-80 driver range...

[ratt_finkel]

But, I do not support going to the bus lot as some kind of Nationals practice or having to pay more for these reasons:

1. The surface of the bus lot sucks and is not fun to run on.

2. In my opinion, the grip is not similar to Nats. The grip of the Topeka surface is very dependant on what time of day or day of week you run. So, saying the bus lot is good practice assumes you run first two days, and/or first couple of heats. No way to know that for several more weeks. And then, it would only be “similar” for a small number of locals who may go.

3. Those who don’t go to Nationals would go to a lousy surface and pay more to “subsidize” those who go to Nationals. I don’t think that is right.

4. If you wanted to really get Nats practice, why didn’t you go to Topeka this last weekend and run the two day event?

5. If you want a lot of bus lot practice, run the Divisional Friday practice, and the Divisional and the SCCA Aug 31 event.

6. If you want time on the Topeka surface, go to the Nats practice the Sunday before. That is the real surface, again subject to #2.

Neal,

I certainly respect both your driving as well as your wisdom. But I have to respectfully disagree.

1. The surface of the bus lot sucks and is not fun to run on.

I think the size of Pennington sucks and is no fun to run on. But that's not really relavent to this conversation.

2. In my opinion, the grip is not similar to Nats. The grip of the Topeka surface is very dependant on what time of day or day of week you run. So, saying the bus lot is good practice assumes you run first two days, and/or first couple of heats. No way to know that for several more weeks. And then, it would only be “similar” for a small number of locals who may go.

While this is true. I feel in my opinion, that the bust lot has the most similar surface to nats, compared to anything else we have. Your comment about time dependency and surface changes is true for any site, anywhere. So that doesn't really hold any water.

3. Those who don’t go to Nationals would go to a lousy surface and pay more to “subsidize” those who go to Nationals. I don’t think that is right.

I know quite a few people who think Pennington is a lousy venue. But again, this all comes down to personal preferance. If you don't want to help "the club", then don't attend the event.

4. If you wanted to really get Nats practice, why didn’t you go to Topeka this last weekend and run the two day event?

That TnT wasn't in the cards for me or my co-driver. But to be honest. The temperature differences will be so different. I'm not sure it would've been much of a help.

6. If you want time on the Topeka surface, go to the Nats practice the Sunday before. That is the real surface, again subject to #2.

I plan to! And I'm assuming we'll see you there as well.

If you can't tell. I'm a proponet of switching this event to the Bus Lot. I feel it is the closest surface we have to Nationals. And it doesn't make sense for our last local event before Nationals to be held on a concrete postage stamp.

If Nationals was back at Forbes or another concrete site. And our local event was planned for the bus lot. I'd be pushing for a switch to Pennington.

The fact of the matter is, those who are going to nationals. Should not be punished by lack of close-mindidness. And if local drivers can't support those who are making the trek. Then there is something wrong with that too.

Either way, it's one event. And everybody has their own personal favorite venue to run. TMS is not mine.

[Titus]

I find it interesting to see that there seems to be very little consensus of which venues have the best and worst surfaces in the area.

[blackzx3_13]

I find it interesting to see that there seems to be very little consensus of which venues have the best and worst surfaces in the area.

I find it interesting to see how many people are focused on their finishing position at nationals instead of just having fun with the sport. Who cares where we race? An autocross is an autocross. I don't do it to win, I do it because its fun and I get to be around good people. There is an interesting article in one of the latest Grassroots Motorsports magazines written by one of the Nonnamakers about people who lose sight of having fun and focus only on winning. Can you honestly say that spending extra money on a lot that is kinda like the Nationals lot, sometimes, is really going to help that much?

/rant

[altiain]

...a concrete postage stamp.

That pretty much sums up how I've always felt about Pennington. The only thing it has going for it (imho) is a central location.

[ratt_finkel]

I find it interesting to see how many people are focused on their finishing position at nationals instead of just having fun with the sport. Who cares where we race? An autocross is an autocross. I don't do it to win, I do it because its fun and I get to be around good people. There is an interesting article in one of the latest Grassroots Motorsports magazines written by one of the Nonnamakers about people who lose sight of having fun and focus only on winning. Can you honestly say that spending extra money on a lot that is kinda like the Nationals lot, sometimes, is really going to help that much?

/rant

If you don't care about winning, why do you care where we race?

[Titus]

If you don't care about winning, why do you care where we race?

I would think that size, quality, and location of the surface all contribute to how much fun you have.

[blackzx3_13]

If you don't care about winning, why do you care where we race?

Who cares where we race?

I don't care where we race. I stated that earlier. I'm just questioning spending extra money for an event on a surface that might not help at all.

[nealb]

Jeremy

thanks for chiming in

that is what (I thought) this thread was started for, to solicit input and info and opinions on running the bus lot versus Pennington or other places

this gives all the club organizers insight into what their members and non-member customers prefer

I'd be surprised if there is a consensus, but we'll see

[cone-cerned]

Hello, my name is cone-cerned, and I'm an autocross addict. Just tell me where and when.

[SpinOutF500]

I prefer Pennington Field over TMS Bus Lot for the Sept. 7th event for the following reasons...

SCCA will be running at TMS on the Bus Lot Aug. 16-17 for the Divisional.
SCCA will be running at TMS on the Bus Lot Aug. 31 for a Regional.

That is 3 days of seat time on that surface. One more day will not make a difference. I don't really care for the surface either.

I want Pennington Field on Sept. 7 so that I can scrub in, and heat cycle, my tires for Nationals. The TMS Bus Lot is not the place to do that, as it only polishes the tires.

Other than that I don't care where the event is.

[ratt_finkel]

My whole point it, running an event NOTHING like nationals (PMS), right before nationals. That makes no sense to me. If all those events were at PMS, and then the last one was at the Bus Lot, I would be ok with that too.

But Pennington is soooooo different from everything else we, or anyone else runs on. That it really negatively effects your driving ability.

Listen. I don't claim to be the worlds greatest driver. But I'd like to think I can adjust to surfaces pretty quickly. But I can tell you right now, the surface AND the size of PMS really limits are national competitors. If you spend all your time at PMS. What happens when you get to Mineral Wells? It's almost like starting all over again.

I originally proposed this idea to David. And he to Gerry. It's one event. It's a measly $15. If you can't afford the additional surcharge. I'll cover it for you. Seriously.

[sammm]

Looks like the bus lot is out.

August 6, 2008

To all Equipe Rapide (ER) Members and Entrants:

Recently a suggestion was brought to the ER board to move ER's September
7, 2008 event from Pennington Field to The Texas Motor Speedway bus
lot.

The ER board discussed this suggestion, came up with several options,
investigated those options and then LET THE MEMBERSHIP give input at
the drivers meeting of our August 3, 2008 event. That input was key to
deciding NOT to move the September 7 event.

The board and officers of ER would like to thank everyone who gave input
online and in person, both for and against moving the event.

See you all at Pennington Field on September 7!

Thanks,
Gerry Terranova

[ratt_finkel]

Wow, that sucks.

[Robert]

Anybody that wants to get more time on the bus lot BMW is having an event their this sat. 8-9-08. They do 8 runs, $40 for non-members. They let you do 1 event a year as a non-member. I heard the course was going to be simular to the nat tour course.

[jrj512]

Anybody that wants to get more time on the bus lot BMW is having an event their this sat. 8-9-08. They do 8 runs, $40 for non-members. They let you do 1 event a year as a non-member. I heard the course was going to be simular to the nat tour course.

It will be Miatamoto's first time to setup a course, so make sure you give him the business.

[Robert]

We would NEVER give the course designer a hard time.

[Titus]

We would NEVER give the course designer a hard time.

How about a swift kick?