Potential Fuel Pump or relay problem?

My '99 left me stranded earlier this evening near downtown Fort Worth. I stopped at a stop light and it died, then wouldn't start. acted like it might fire a couple of times but lots of cranking with no luck. I did a quick check and I'm getting spark to the plugs so I'm thinking it's possibly fuel related. maybe the fuel pump relay or the fuel pump. unfortunately I didn't think to do a quick check of the fuzes to see if any were blown. I'm going to run back down where the car's at in the morning to see if I can figure it out. anybody have any tips, tricks, suggestions, or any other ideas what it could be or something to check?

After thinking about it a little, it has seemed to take more cranking than normal this past week to get the car started. Would that be another potential indicator of the fuel pump and/or relay?

Thanks in advance,
Keith

Or maybe the alternator is bad and has been draining your battery making it harder to start and now it has failed completely....maybe check the battery 1st...

Sounds like he's cranking ok, just not getting it to start.

Could be a fuel pump. They tend to go out in a similar fashion as what you are describing.

Did it kick the Check Engine Light?

When the Cam position sensor died in our 2002 the symptoms you report sound very familiar.

Clogged fuel filter?

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Did it kick the Check Engine Light?

When the Cam position sensor died in our 2002 the symptoms you report sound very familiar.

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I think mine acted that way when you killed it too!

Will the check engine light go out after a brief period with the key in the on position even if it isn't running (if it's not throwing a code)? Wasn't sure whether it was throwing a code or simply showing that the light was working when the key is initially turned on.

Assuming it's throwing a code, do you know if there is any way to jumper the OBD connector to get it to flash the code on the dash light or do I have to have an OBD-II reader for the '99?

I think I've got a spare cam position sensor in the garage, so that might be worth a try. still suspecting the fuel pump/relay though. I don't remember hearing the fuel pump turn on when I turned the key on. might try hitting it with some starter fluid and if it starts briefly but dies that would be another fuel indicator.

"Clogged fuel filter? "

I thought about that but I just replaced it this past summer. still could be it but I'm guessing something else.

You can jumper a couple of connectors on the diagnostic port and listen for the pump. I forget which two connectors, (it's on the pointy board,) but it is how I diagnosed the two of mine that died.

Vatozone will check if you have any stored codes for free.

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Originally Posted by sammm

Vatozone will check if you have any stored codes for free.

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Yeah, that's what I normally do. Unfortunately I can't get it there for them to check until I get it running.

So I pulled the connector at the fuel pump. According to a troubleshooting tips page on the pointy board it says that I should see 12vdc while cracking the engine. I'm only seeing around 8.5-9.5vdc while cracking. When I'm not cranking I'm reading 11.7vdc. makes me suspect the relay.

Before I pulled the plug I didn't ever hear the pump run. Maybe 9.5vdc isn't enough to get it going?

Ya sure its not the battery??

Ya get it home yet??

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Ya sure its not the battery??

Ya get it home yet??

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Definitely not the battery :) it's fuel related. Starts right up with a little shot of starting fluid and then dies after a few seconds when its gone. Fuel pump isnt ever running but I'm still thinking its the.relay. trying to figure out if I can bypass the relay somehow and get 12vdc to the pump to get me home.

Not home yet. Either I can bypass relay or I'm checking to see if my neighbors trailer is available to borrow.

Any idea if the relay on a 1990 is the same as a 99? if so I could pull the one from my 90 and see if that works.

Where U at I have a scanner and would be happy to help anyway I can so you can get it home before the snows start! ;-)

From experience - No crank signal = no fuel

But then relay could also be the problem.

Yeah, I recently had the wire to my cas brake. It would turn over but no fuel. Also a friend with a 99 recently had a similar issue and it was a bad crankshaft position sensor.

Did you get the car home??

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Originally Posted by POS Racing

Did you get the car home??

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Had dinner plans with friends so went back later this evening to trailer it home. It's now safe and snug in the garage before the big snow.

On the way home earlier today I found a relay in a salvage. figured for $5 it was worth trying. gave it a try before loading on the trailer but it didn't make any difference. Guess I've got a spare relay now if it ever goes out :-)

If it's as cold as they say it's going to be for the next few days it'll just have to sit in the garage until it warms up a little. I've got an extra car so there's no hurry to get it running.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions so far.

So I finally got around to taking a look at the Miata tonight. I'm 99.9% sure it's the fuel pump. Trying to decide whether to pickup a used one from a salvage, O'Reilly/Autozone or get a new OEM one. Looks like for the small price difference between O'Reilly and OEM I'm better off staying with the OEM (other than having to wait on Brown Santa to bring it to me). OEM will run me around $200-$220. I can pick up a used one for around $75 but I'm thinking since it's used I don't know how much life it has left. What's the normal lifespan of a miata fuel pump?

Anybody have a recommendation on which way to go?

How hard or easy is it to get to? Do you just have to remove the back deck carpet and the big cover plate? I'd probably buy a new OEM.

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Originally Posted by sammm

How hard or easy is it to get to? Do you just have to remove the back deck carpet and the big cover plate? I'd probably buy a new OEM.

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Yep. It is a 30 minute or less job once you have done it a few times.

If it were a huge pain in the ass like dropping a full 44 gallon gas tank to replace it like when I did my Suburban, I'd definitely go with a new one. However, since this is a relatively easy enough change I'd opt for used at $75. In the unlikely event you ever have to change it out again you're still ahead.

Put another worn out one in there, spend $75, and when it fails you can buy a new one.
Good news - You'll be experienced
Bad news - you'll be out $200 + $75 and another half hour of your life.

YMMV

Yeah, this is a really easy swap. especially since I hadn't replaced any of the back deck carpet/etc from my recent roll bar install. procrastination paid off :-)

I'm more concerned with the hassle factor of being stuck on the side of the road if I put in a used one and it goes out after a short time. If the average lifespan of a fuel pump is 200k miles then I'll go OEM since most salvaged ones probably don't have much life left in them. If they're known to last a lot longer, then the used pump will probably still outlast the car and I probably don't need to get to concerned about it.

I put in a used one from Nissan Mazda heaven and it looked damn near brand new... especially compared to the one I pulled out. Save the $125 and go used.

It's a pretty easy swap, especially if you've not put everything back together yet.

New parts can leave you stranded on the side of the road as well.

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Originally Posted by Keifersmith

I'm more concerned with the hassle factor of being stuck on the side of the road if I put in a used one and it goes out after a short time. If the average lifespan of a fuel pump is 200k miles then I'll go OEM since most salvaged ones probably don't have much life left in them. If they're known to last a lot longer, then the used pump will probably still outlast the car and I probably don't need to get to concerned about it.

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But what if the used one was actually an OEM replacement with only a few thousand miles? ::hypno::

Swung by Mazda-Nissan Heaven on the way home from work tonight and picked up a fuel pump from Mario. Took me about 20 min to swap it out and I wasn't in any hurry. Car is back up and running like a champ again. Woo Hoo!! Now I get to go register for Sunday's NTAXS event at Pennington.

Thanks for all the input and suggestions.

So, when you go to Nissan-Mazda heaven in search of a particular part, are they already pulled from teh car, do you have to pull or do they have their own people pull it?

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Originally Posted by AlanP1964

So, when you go to Nissan-Mazda heaven in search of a particular part, are they already pulled from teh car, do you have to pull or do they have their own people pull it?

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They used to let you roam the yard and pull your own stuff. I've been told they won't let you do that now, but haven't been there lately.

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Originally Posted by AlanP1964

So, when you go to Nissan-Mazda heaven in search of a particular part, are they already pulled from teh car, do you have to pull or do they have their own people pull it?

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They pull the part for you. I called as I left to drive down there and it was already pulled and waiting on me when I arrived.